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Stop! That Sign is Here To Stay (at Least for Now)

Several temporary stop signs were installed at the start of the Main Street Makeover; which ones should remain?

Part of University Drive in downtown Rochester closed temporarily on Wednesday as workers painted a bright white "stop" at the intersection of Water Street.

A temporary four-way stop at University and Water was installed at the start of the Main Street Makeover earlier this year; this week, city leaders said the four-way stop will stay until they can gather feedback in post-Makeover times about its usefulness.

"We are observing it now without construction to see if we want to propose to keep it permanent," said City Manager Jaymes Vettraino.

Four-way stops at Pine and Fourth streets and Pine and Third streets, as well as a three-way stop at Diversion and South streets, are also going to stay for awhile.

"We would be happy for feedback," Vettraino said.

Should the signs stay?

Susan M. December 13, 2012 at 04:02 PM
She is only partially correct. According to Michigan Vehicle Code Act 300 of 1949, a vehicle approaching an intersection must yield right of way to a vehicle that is already at the intersection. FURTHER, when 2 vehicles arrive at the intersection at the same time, the driver of the vehicle on the left must yield right of way to the driver of the vehicle on the right. And as my driver's ed teacher said, "If you can't figure out who should go, bend down and tie your shoe!" ;) Then the other person goes because you're obviously preoccupied.
richard sommers December 13, 2012 at 04:06 PM
Slow down! At least pay attention. Make all perrmanent. Add one at First & Wilcox.
Harriet Jones December 13, 2012 at 04:18 PM
I'm with you. Not sure what Lisa meant, either. Maybe whoever is faster, not first? Ha. Anyway, I just hope I'm not at the intersection at the same time she is. We may have a problem.
Lynne December 13, 2012 at 04:44 PM
The signs at Water and University are a big help for those trying to exit from Olde Towne to University. I vote to keep them up.
Joey Benn December 13, 2012 at 05:13 PM
Is the intersection of Water and University really that busy that a stop sign is required 1 block from a traffic light? I agree with Nicole, it creates back up. The traffic flowed just fine before through this area.
Susan M. December 13, 2012 at 05:16 PM
According to Michigan Vehicle Code Act 300 of 1949, a vehicle approaching an intersection must yield right of way to a vehicle that is already at the intersection. FURTHER, when 2 vehicles arrive at the intersection at the same time, the driver of the vehicle on the left must yield right of way to the driver of the vehicle on the right. And as my driver's ed teacher said, "If you can't figure out who should go, bend down and tie your shoe!" ;) Then the other person goes because you're obviously preoccupied.
George Taylor December 13, 2012 at 05:23 PM
During rush hour, east bound traffic on University backs up to Main Street because of this 4 way stop. I would be in favor of abolishing these stop signs. Leave Pine and Fourth and South Street and Diversion as is.
Todd Frerichs December 13, 2012 at 05:41 PM
1) Take the signs down. 2) Also, stop signs are either "all-way" or just plain. There shouldn't be any 2-way, 3-way, 4-way, etc. 3) While we are on traffic, make the stop lights blink at hours when there are few people on the roads. Sitting at Adams and Tienken at 4 am waiting for a light when I can't see any cars is silly.
Meredith McCutcheon December 13, 2012 at 05:47 PM
Yes, Susan is right. You DO proceed according to arrival unless you arrive at the same time. Then you yield to the right.
Scot Beaton December 13, 2012 at 08:40 PM
Dee... thanks for the comment -- you gave away your knowledge of this subject with TCO very few know what that means... LOL Traffic Control Order. I agree 100% with your comment and public input helps; let's hope the Patch forwards the comments to the City of Rochester... Happy Holidays.
Thomas Perry December 13, 2012 at 09:04 PM
Keep them all! Traffic hasn't backed up on University since Main has reopened. May I also suggest puttin another at University and Olde Town (library traffic). Is there also a way to keep assholes from doing 40 mph, or faster, on that stretch of University? Everyone seems to think it ok to haul-ass the ought there, ignore the crosswalk, and fly through all three stop signs on Elizabeth (also Miller) to get to Parkdale. I'm sick of my subdivision acting as a passthrough for speeding assholes. Is there any way we could encourage drivers to use the proper bypasses (Main/Romeo and Main/Second)?
Thomas Perry December 13, 2012 at 09:09 PM
Also, before someone gets killed, can we add a traffic light at the Lifetime entrance on Main? Also allow (make) South Hill Plaza, McDonalds, and other businesses to tie into the Lifetime driveway so people can safely turn out of there. I almost broadsided three cars that all decided to pull out of the area parking lots at the same time. One person recklessly pulled in front of me, thus prompting two others to do the same, from the other parking lots, without realizing I was even there.
Joey Benn December 13, 2012 at 09:35 PM
I rarely see people flying on university near water. I travel that everyday. I think people are confused with the cross walk sign. Most of the time I see people stop at the cross walk regardless if there are people there or not. The sign states to stop for pedestrians within the crossing area, but people stop or yield almost every time.
Todd Frerichs December 13, 2012 at 10:08 PM
Speed bumps work. Stop signs don't.
David Gifford December 13, 2012 at 10:12 PM
Thomas, you are right about the dangers of south Rochester Road. Between poor visibility, heavy traffic, speed limit, proximity to a busy intersection and a lot of businesses on the west side, something needs to be done there. I have suggested a median with Michigan left turns to prevent people from turning left into or out of these businesses.
Dee Kay December 13, 2012 at 11:42 PM
Thanks Scot. I have to plead guilty to actually knowing a little bit about government and how it works. The Rochester council needs to look at ALL of the info before bending to public pressure, including speed studies of the merit of these signs. The easy way politically would be to do what most, or the loudest of citizens scream, even though that may not be the best way to handle the issue. Now that DE has finally changed the transformer in my area, after going thru two power supplies, one motherboard, and five surge suppressors since the day before Thanksgiving, I am hoping that the Holidays will indeed be happy. Happy Holidays to you, and all Patch readers and contributors as well. Here's hoping for a much more involved citizenry and less divisive 2013 for America as well.
David Oliver December 14, 2012 at 01:28 AM
Dee, Thank you for being one of the few that understand why we have a Road Commission and what TCO's are about. The use of Stop signs for "Traffic Calming" is a bad approach. Wasted fuel and added polution is the outcome. We did fine for many years without all the annoying additional stop signs, we sure don't need them now and for all the wrong reasons. Elizabeth Street is a perfect example of Stop signs gone wrong. You have to stop every 100 feet. Most do a "California rolling stop" which isn't serving any real purpose, followed by heavy footed heavy acceleration to the next sign. It's not a wise idea when the un-informed make the decisions.
Kevin December 14, 2012 at 01:33 AM
Seems like an odd spot for a speed bump, Todd. I think the stop sign was a wise choice.
David Oliver December 14, 2012 at 01:37 AM
So all those stop signs on Elizabeth haven't helped! The speeding continues. Case in point why this isn't a solution. Tickets are the only way to control speeding in residential areas.
Dave Frame December 14, 2012 at 03:47 AM
The city won't take any of them away. It just gives the city a new source of revenue when the police start writing tickets for people who don't stop. Here's an idea, since Oakland county loves round-abouts, how about putting one at University and Water.
Andy Sakmar December 14, 2012 at 09:34 PM
I travel that route almost daily for over 30 years. I feel the stop signs on water street are required and make sense but to create a four way stop at that intersection makes no sense at all. If you are travelling East on University between 4:30 and 6:30 the traffic sometime backs up clear to Main street and slows trafic down and making it difficult to come out of East st and Dominos for evening supper deliveries or pick up. Andy Sakmar
Karen December 14, 2012 at 10:09 PM
Yes, please keep the stop sign at Water & University. If our town is supposed to be pedestrian friendly, we need that crosswalk. If I want to run a few errands and am already parked in one of the municipal lots behind the businesses, I would have to go back to Main Street to cross University to get to the Post Office, the Library or Catching Fireflies. The crosswalk there is very convenient and I have obviously noticed cars going a lot slower turning into Water St. to get to the Post Office and the Library. Besides, aren't the Leader Dogs the pride of our city, yet we are not making more areas of our city to pedestrian-friendly to accommodate them?
Christine Hage December 16, 2012 at 11:40 AM
I agree. Getting off of Olde Towne to go west on University is tough sometimes because of the backup.
Mackey Chandler December 16, 2012 at 02:15 PM
A little off topic...I think the 45mph speed limit on the stretch from the bridge south past all the auto dealers and business on south Rochester road is too fast. It was probably Okay 15 years ago. Now passing through there are so many cars turning across your nose in a short distance it is dangerous. It is so bad I don't try to turn left from McDonald's most of the time - I turn right and go loop around somewhere or make a big circle back north on Livernois. It should be 35 from the bridge to Avon. Some people just can't make themselves push on the gas pedal for the hill so you get a mix of 30 to 50 mph traffic that makes turning difficult to judge.
David Oliver December 16, 2012 at 02:59 PM
It's all about Traffic volume. 20-25 years ago, Romeo and Oakland township didn't have 100's/1000's of new homes... it was farm land. Rochester Road is one of the only main routes north. The entire section of road way from South Hill Bridge south to Troy needs to be a boulevard, like Troy is slowly doing from Big Beaver north to Square Lake Road. You'll eliminate left turns and it would be much safer for all that traffic and business.
Carol December 16, 2012 at 11:55 PM
Traffic in this area has been very heavy since the construction started and it continues since completion. I have seen a number of cars nearly roll over on the hill on University west of Elizabeth. This is an area of town with little to no police patrols. Traffic is crazy fast often with no regard to high number of pedestrians and bicyclists using the crosswalk at Paint Creek.
Sue December 17, 2012 at 04:28 PM
The stop signs on University need to go. Traffic backs up to Main St. and it makes it hard to turn left onto the street by the jewelers when going west on University. Then traffic backs up with that!
Janis Gamble December 18, 2012 at 06:40 PM
The stop sign at 3rd and Pine should stay. We happen to live on 3rd street and have small children that play outside. Our street is often used as a cut through street by many that are looking to avoid main street. In fact, so many cars cut through in the morning that I sometimes have to wait more than 5-10 minutes just to back out of my own driveway. Cars tend to speed down our street in a hurry to cut through without ever slowing down, even when they see the neighborhood children at play outside. We love the stop sign, it slows these cars down. Maybe, so many vehicles won't cut through on our street anymore. It would be a tragedy if one of these children gets struck by a speeding vehicle. After all, this is a residential area for some of us.
Marsha December 20, 2012 at 02:24 AM
Please remove the stop sign at Water and University and move it to Olde Towne and University, it's impossible to turn left onto University from Olde Towne and it seems more likely a spot for a stop sign.
Ray Henry February 27, 2013 at 06:23 PM
I'm a little late to this discussion, however, I totally agree that that stop sign on W. Third and Pine should stay. W. Third has way too many speeding cars who use W. Third to avoid University. I'd like to add a stop sign at W. Third and Taylor (currently a two-way stop). The cars on W. Third should have to stop if only to keep the speeds down to the limit.

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