Daryl, Reno, and Joshua are McMillin's minions. You may have seen their work in the movies as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_CAs3q7G48

Yes, we are welcoming.

On the other hand, we've seen you and the rest of your pals do your part for JVR! :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SESI19h4wDo

Actually Oakland I think you meant this clip. It shows them at their best.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=koO2n_78Mww

I feel compelled to point out that the previous link here by Chris is a link to "Despicable Me". She has this habit of making stealth posts -- offering a comment so that it is emailed to the group, then immediately deleting it so there is no record, and nobody can rebutt, and others just reading cannot see it.

The link to "Despicable Me" just might be appropriate here. Daryl has attempted to have an intelligent discussion, and it all sounds like foreign gibberish to some, who struggle to make any rebuttal beyond these sophomoric video links...

Reminded me of Frasier's dad... just a bit confused with the talk... simply latching on to a few dog whistle buzzwords.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MqQcOEVxmE

Wow Mike I have no idea what you are talking about. I do not delete posts. I am not a stealth poster, what ever that is. If I have ever deleted a post it was because of many typos and not carefully proofread. I may have done that ONCE on the Patch. In fact I am new here as far as commenting on the Patch. Are you sure you mean me?

I most certainly would not delete this link either, it's cute and funny. I love the Minions. I like the flying monkeys scene too, so thanks for your link. I laughed out loud when it popped open. In general it sounds like I am getting under your skin. My apologies if you took the "despicable" part personally. I meant it to be a back up to Oakland's minion comment, not that you are despicable. And as I said, it is a cute clip.

Mike,

Instead of bashing one candidate, tell us why you believe your candidate is the right one based on their experience, plan and statements. The idea is to read the 2 plans and comment on the plan you like and why, not a negative bash time with spin talking points.

How about some details on the priorities and plan of your chosen candidate?

It's all right that you, Daryl, and Joshua are vertically challenged. You are protected by civil rights legislation in place.

I loved the video clips, adding some humor is always a good time and brings some levity to the conversation.

I have put together a Candidate Questionnaire form and sent it to both Joanna and Tom and they both agreed to fill it out and send it back to me. When I receive both of them I will post them for all to see.

In the Candidate Questionnaire form I approached it like a job interview and asked some basic questions:
1. Professional background and top 3 accomplishments with outcomes.
2. Top 3 roles and responsibilities of being a State of Michigan Representative and how their professional background helps them achieve them.
3. Top 3 issues facing Michigan and what is their plan to address them with expected results.

For me and how I make decisions these questions will help me understand how they would represent our community. Others may have other questions to meet their personal approach; I encourage them to contact the candidates with those questions so they can see a comparison between them.

I certainly am disappointed with all of the posts that just attack; they obviously did not read the post and comments asking for details about each candidate. Making someone look bad on fabricated issues is just meaningless noise.

We need to understand what each candidate is going to do, can they do it and will it continue to move Michigan in the right direction with measured results.

Tom did this all by himself, eh? He is not a part of the team, Daryl, he is off the reservation.

You say, "I am looking for a Representative that has some real experience and a background to make this happen. In my view, Joanna VanRaaphorst seems like a real nice person, but no real background in turning an organization around and building an economy." You obviously haven't studied her background very thoroughly or have had much interaction with the people who know her personally.

"I am also concerned about her top priority to save Public Education; this is not the top or only issue facing our State. Why is Public Education her only choice? How about the right mix of education tools and delivery systems for all of the students and parents to choose?" Funny I thought Republicans were all about education, and that it was a priority. If not it should be because I doubt future employers would want to settle here if we do not have a an educated population or a place where their employees children can receive a good education. Are you proposing school vouchers for Cranbrook or Country Day or Roeper as a solution? Oh wait, I'll bet you're one of those who think charters are not for profit and will give parents a real (better) alternative. What pray tell is an education "tool" or "delivery system"? Is that code for charters? How is a bad charter system improving parent's choices?

Chris,

I did not say Tom did this by himself, he was part of the team that did.

Educate me on Joanna, I went to her website and read articles she was interviewed for and did not see any real experience in running or turning an organization around. How about a positive talk about this race? Give me the positives on Joanna, not just a statement that people who know her personally think she is great, that is not enough to get my vote.

What is wrong if a parent decides to send their children to private or charter school? It is their tax dollars why can't they spend it where they want to?

Daryl, you asked me "What is wrong if a parent decides to send their children to private or charter school? It is their tax dollars why can't they spend it where they want to?"

There is nothing wrong with it at all. It's none of my business where my neighbors want to send their children to school. It's their choice. However, tax dollars do not (and should not) go to private schools.

How disingenuous. McMillin raised taxes on the poor and elderly and gave tax cuts to Moroun. He protected his pension, and he cut everyone else's. People are back to work, buying homes, and paying taxes again - thanks to Granholm and Obama. Daryl, you are so partisan. If Granholm had had an ounce of cooperation from the likes of Bishop, McMillin and the rest of the madhatters, MI and our schools wouldn't have had half of the budget crises it experienced. If I were Joanna, I wouldn't respond to you or your survey. You have an agenda, and it shows in all of your postings going way back when.

TOM DIDN'T DO IT. You can thank Granholm and Barack Obama for the numbers and economic recovery this state is experiencing. If they had "let Detroit go bankrupt", we'd still be in a hole too deep to get out of. As bad as one party GOP rule is for civilization, at least it eliminated Bishop and the obstructionist GOP Senate that refused to accept minority status and work with Granholm - on anything. Bishop is just another I hate government but please elect and pay me to take away your services, undermine community, and redistribute your tax dolars to my business pals and their profits. Lansing was just a microcosm of the same bullying tactics the GOP is using in Washington - e.g. the debt ceiling.

You want an experienced representative who has experience at doing what? Legislating his religious views? Redistributing money away from our community and its children into his own pension and the arms of out-of-state charter schools? Who says schools are not our top priority? How are you going to attract corporations or young people to a state that doesn't believe in evolution and isn't willing to educate its kids and workforce. After all the government job training money your school got, I cannot believe you want to slam the door on everybody else. Right mix? Pull yourself up by your bootstraps and pay for your own designer educations. This isn't Texas.

Had to chuckle at "designer educations"... It is exactly how Public Ed Inc views the reform effort. Parents have had enough of the one-size-fits-all approach that exists today, and want more for their children.

As far this nonsense about redistribution... It also clearly defines how you see this. Redistribution is the practice of taking from one and giving to another. This idea that anyone was somehow able to "redistribute your tax dollars to my business pals and their profits" COMPLETELY defies any logic.

If that were true, then they would be taxing citizens, and writing checks to business. That is simply not true.

And I can't believe you are even brining up the debt ceiling! You are PROUD of how the democrats added $5 trillion in debt in just 4 years? This is debt that your great grandchildren will be paying!

Do you personally borrow money that you expect your children to repay?

McMillin and conservatives are already whining about the high cost of education. Now you complain it's one size fits all. If you want a tailored suit, you'll have to pay for it with higher taxes; but of course, you object to that too. Most teachers do the best they can with the resources their bosses give them. You have a boat load of managers in the Districts, and nobody complains about them or their salaries. It's the teachers who take all the heat because the GOP wants to privatize education - just like everything else they can get their hands on. Public education has been the great equalizer in this country, which is exactly why it needs to be supported and preserved. It created the middle class and that's what sticks in conservatives' craw. The same radical right wing Republicans in Florida did what McMillin is doing and now, they're shocked!S " FL failed charter school did without computers, library, or cafeteria. Principal got $824,000."

You can't pay for a tailored suit at a general clothing factory. Or if you did, it would most likely look like the general suit... just more expensive.

And you want the money, but demand it with no accountability. If you spend it... they will perform? So far we have decades of data that shows that is not the case.

And as far as your unidentified FL charter... Don't you wonder about the idiot parents who signed-up at a school wi no computer and no cafeteria? Or another twist... Maybe they did know there were no computers, but were so desperate to get out of the failed public school that they were willing to risk it?

Any insight to offer on the parent motivation to enroll or stay at that charter?

Oh... and you also neglected to show any of the results... You only quoted the salary.

I'll give you credit, Dorothy, you can sure pack a boat load of misinformation and distortions into each posting.

The Republicans are upset that there is a middle class? Are you stuck back in the renaissance period?

And the meme over privatization... Go read the book "Freedoms's Forge". It was private enterprise that saved America, even the world, in WWII and even FDR knew to ignore the advice of extreme liberals who wanted government control of manufacturing.

By unleashing the power of American ingenuity IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR, America was able to reduce costs and out produce the rest of the world COMBINED.

And they did it, by the way, in spite of the continuous hurdles and obstruction of the labor unions, who actually impeded wartime production as they struck over critical items like Jo would be able to use the telephone during work hours.

McMillin has a voting record that was totally ignored and which clearly demonstrates that McMillin is an ideologue legislating his own pocketbook and religious beliefs.

Joanna is 1000xs better for our community, downtown, and kids................. http://www.joannaforrochester.com/

Joanna VanRaaphorst
#Strongly supports public education
#Moved to Rochester 21 years ago largely due to great public schools
#Supports adequate and stable funding for public schools
#Supports transparency and quality measures for for-profit charter
schools and cyber schools funded with taxpayer dollars.
#Wants to maintain local control
#Her children Max and Claire graduated from Rochester Public Schools.
#Joanna was active in PTA, celebrates the diversity in our schools, and supports equal treatment of all students

Tom McMillin
#Does not support public education, teachers or Rochester kids.
#Moved to Rochester Hills from Auburn Hills in order to run for this
seat 4 years ago
#Voted to cut $1 billion from public education
#Voted to eliminate caps on for-profit charter schools, without any quality
measures
#Pushed through for-profit cyber schools without any evidence of success and gave Cyber schools the full per pupil funding even though they have no buildings, fewer teachers and profits go out of state
#President, Prevail Academy Charter School Board, a for-profit charter school in Mt. Clemens
#Held up anti-bullying legislation for years over objections to “gay” students

Totally obnoxious, and completely intolerant of differing perspectives and approaches.

Your sanctimonious and mean-spirited behavior exemplifies the very thing that you claim fuels your outrage against Tom.

Pot, meet kettle.

Bruce,

You forgot to mention ALEC or the Koch Brothers, your check from the Democratic Party is going to go down this month.

Well said Dorothy, well said.

JVR took FIVE GRAND from the MEA. If we follow your logic that money leads to quid-pro-quo, is JVR now likely to follow the MEA "adults first, students get the leftovers" program?

Mike: Please explain why, in your viewpoint, the Michigan Chamber of Commerce is able to screen, recommend, and donate money to a candiate/proposal, yet the MEA is not allowed? Are business people smarter than workers? Does the business community have more rights than the average citizen?

No... the MEA is certainly free to endorse.

I like the MI Chamber endorsements. It tells me that that an organization designed to represent the financial interests of business has vetted a candidate, and believe that candidate will be there to help businesses.

Likewise, the MEA is there to advocate for representatives who will represent the financial interests of their membership. They will go in and fight for higher salaries, better benefits, higher taxes, and so on.

There is nothing wrong with the endorsement... in fact it's good and telling.

I am so sick and tired of the self-congratulatory grandstanding from "business" people like you. We can all see what a great job the banks and automotives did, and we can all thank the US Chamber of Commerce for Citizens United and the buying and selling of democracy in America. Good management and leadership doesn't have squat to do with making a profit - ask Bernie Madoff and Jamie Dimon. But perhaps this is too complex a thought for you good ol' boys to comprehend while you're so busy patting your own backs. I know teachers and public servants that could run circles around you.

The banks had two problems... first were these hopelessly complex derivatives that were built on pillars of sand. Unfortunately, our nanny-state government bailed them out, rather then letting them pay their price for their reckless risks. The second was that they were required by your hero Bill Clinton to make loans to people who couldn't afford them... all in the name of being "fair".

How about this, Dorothy... maybe you focus your boundless negative energy on worrying about your own life, and quit trying to get the government to confiscate and redistribute from those who are willing to work hard, take risks, and sacrifice.

Dan I believe that Tom's statement about Brooks "backing the radical homosexual agenda" means that Brooks is not a bigot which is apparently a problem for Tom.

Thanks for the lecture, I already knew this because i watch FOX News too.

Now what's so great about Tom? Please show me how he saved anything in MI. He is more interested in his radical beliefs than Snyder's vision. He doesn't even take his citizens' safety into account or value it much voting FOR no helmets on motorcycles and AGAINST the texting and driving law. He's a real peach.

I suppose you may want to suggest it's because he is a Republican he is all about personal freedom, and getting government out of our business. If that is true then he needs to get his nose out of the business of how other people live there lives and express themselves sexually.

Chris,

Bashing gets us nowhere, how about presenting your ideas and rationale instead negative talk. I stated why I am supporting my candidate without bashing the other. How about a real conversation without the spin and talking points?

Daryl I asked you a question that you have not answered, please show me how he saved anything in MI? What bills did he sponsor that were passed that you thought were good and why, please. Thanks.

Chris,

I listed the accomplishments of the Snyder team; he was part of that team. The change in Michigan is to be being fiscally responsible with a sustainable model. The budget gimmicks and kicking the can down the road is in the past. They are not done fixing Michigan and have more work to do to make it the place to do business and live. If you read his plan posted on his website he has listed what he has done, he did things with the team and they had positive results in Michigan.

Now, can you answer for me why you believe Joanna is the candidate? What is her experience and tools and how is she going to keep this momentum going in Michigan?

Why is she only focused on public education as the only way to educate our kids? Why has she taken contributions from the MEA? Is this a conflict of interest? How can she hold the MEA accountable and negotiate terms with them when she is supported financially by them?

It is a conflict of interest issue for me. When she states public education as the only way to educate our kids she lost my vote. There are many quality ways to educate our kids and the parents should be able to make that decision with their tax dollars.

Now back to the economy, what is she specifically going to do to keep Michigan moving in the right direction? I want to see a plan, not just some statements. As the challenger, she needs to say what she is going to do specifically. Her website does not show any experience, plan or details.

Daryl where's Tom's plan to keep moving MI in the right direction? Show me ONE bill he sponsored that helps MI out. His bigoted hate bill does not count, that's a backwards, not forward step.

Why do I like Joanna? She's fiscally conservative, and fair on social issues. She fits me to a T. You sound like you believe every Democrat has mush for brains when it comes to fiscal policy matters. Just because someone has a D after their name does not make them incompetent of creating sound fiscal policy. Every person is first an individual and then a party member. You know I don't even hold Tom against the entire Republican Party of Michigan. Yet.

I couldn't agree more, Paul. What a wacky guy that Romney is (said tongue in cheek.) He had women's resumes in his "binder" so he could review them and saw the amount of talent that was going to waste strictly because they were female. He wanted to hire more women so as to increase their presence in MA state government. One of his highly placed appointees what a female Democrat. I am pretty certain Tom would be aghast at this. What I wonder is if it the Democrat or the woman he would have to most problem with? He is backwards, not forwards which is what Michigan needs.

And if he is about improving the economy and jobs he should know that making us a gay unfriendly community and state would hurt us in attracted educated and talented gay professionals. Who would bring their family to 1950s Mississippi?

Tom is a small business man attracted to state government to feather his own nest and force his biased, Christian agenda down our throats. The problem is he seems more attracted to that second part of his mission. I am a Christian too, but his version does not match mine. If he really cares about the economy and making MI attractive to businesses thus creating more jobs, he should look past the end of his nose and see what the rest of the country is all about. He is a minority in his thinking, and a dangerous one. He needs to go.

Chris,

Instead of bashing one candidate, tell us why you believe your candidate is the right one based on their experience, plan and statements. The idea is to read the 2 plans and comment on the plan you like and why, not a negative bash time with spin talking points.

How about some details on the priorities and plan of your chosen candidate?

Mark,

Taxing seniors is a spin doctor’s talking point to inflame people. Do you know the facts? The only change is the Public Sector pensions are now being taxed just like the Private Sector pensions have been forever. These are the facts, so the spin that we are taxing seniors to pay for this is false, the only change is the Public Sector is no longer a special interest group and they now have to pay their fair share.

All that is left is Military and Railroad pensions that are exempt from paying taxes. How do you feel about those special interest groups getting special treatment?

Daryl, the only spin doctor he is you. That tax increase applied to both private and public sector, define benefit and defined contribution plans.

Charlie,

The private sector always paid taxes on their pensions. If you read the document with the facts you can remove the spin, now the public sector has to pay taxes on their pensions like the rest of the world.

They are no longer a special interest group and paying their fair share like the rest of us in the private sector. Prove me wrong with some facts, not just misleading talking points.

Sorry if I sound like a sycophant, but that was really well said Mark.

Eve,

Tell me in a positive way without bashing the other candidate why we should vote for Joanna. Not just the statements of an opinion. This is a job interview, what are her qualifications, experience in handling complex matters, turning around an organization and financial review/approval expertise?

Basically, how can she do the job? What is her plan? What I see on her website is just minor statements with no details. I want to see a plan. This has turned into a bashing of Tom McMillin and not a presentation of a candidate that has the credentials to do the job at hand, the economy.

A nice person does not get my vote, experience and past successful results do.

MEA is an organization we negotiate with and ask for value. It is a conflict of interest if the candidate is too close to the MEA, how can they negotiate a real value added deal with the city if they are obliged to them. Did the MEA make contributions to Joanna’s effort? If so, should we be suspect of that action?

Josh,

Sounds like you are convinced in your candidate and are posting some positive ideas on why you see her as the candidate.

McMillin did get enough votes in the last election to get elected. So just because I am the only one posting here does not mean he has no support. It just means the people posting on the Patch on Sunday night happen to decide to bash him.

I am just sick and tired of the spin and attacks I see about him. The facts do not line up with the rhetoric, but that is what our political system has come to. Just because I support him is not a reason to attack me. This is still America and we all have free speech, to be attacked because you think differently than others is just plain wrong.

I see a vote for Joanna as hope and change, no experience to back up the credentials to do the job. How about someone giving us the credentials she has to meet the challenge of the job? Not because she supports public education as the only choice. Why are the public educators afraid of different ways of delivering education?

Darryl how is being a career politician (and doing a bad job of it) and being a CPA "job credentials" over Joanna's experience? Look at her resume, you know how to get to her website. Why do we have to restate them for you?

Speaking of sick of spin and attacks I am about done with you and Mike and your spin doctoring and hatred of the MEA. Both of you have mentioned it more than once in this thread, and it's no different than our dislike of Tom's radical, Taliban agenda. But we're not allowed to say so according to you. You just want the facts. Guess what? I am the MEA. Yes, me. One little peon, in one small school district in Michigan doing a good job for kids and parents every day. I work my tail off, I do a great job says my bosses and the kids and parents I serve. Who are you to tell me that I am not worthy of fair representation at the bargaining table? Who says educators are afraid of delivering education in different ways? Not my school district! We are quite innovative and will most likely have the biggest virtual school in SE MI in a few years. We are looking at flip teaching (do your homework on this one, it's really amazing) and we'll be implementing it soon. You see the problem with you MEA haters is you have failed to see the remarkable changes taking place in local public schools. My son is finishing his 8th grade year with credit for Algebra, Geometry, Chinese I , and Spanish I. That's FOUR high school credits, Daryl. From a public middle school in MI.

Chris,

Thank you for defining your position, not sure I agree, but you did this without bashing McMillin. Now how is Joanna's experience and plan going to take on this important issue for you? I see nothing in her experience and plan to address this, only a general statement. I would like to see this addressed in detail before I put my support behind a candidate, how about you?

Regarding volunteers in charter schools, this happens in all schools. Your comments make it sound like that they demand slave labor, great spin and talking point but not accurate. These are parents and citizens who want to make a difference and help out by donating their time. This is not mandated free labor, these are volunteers who want to help, I do some myself and that is my motivation.

Um yes Daryl, it's not like the PTA and the PTO groups that I am talking about. It's MANDATORY hours of commitment that is expected of parents of some charter schools. It's not a choice. The parent commitment contract is with the enrollment documents. No I wouldn't call it slavery, but if it's mandated it most certainly isn't voluntary.

Mark,

You are just bashing McMillin and giving that the reason to vote for Joanna. I have yet to hear a positive thing that compels people to vote for her. This is a job interview, having hired many people in my career I have to know some things about the person before I hire them. Being a nice person is great, but not a qualification to handle the job at hand.

When I read about her experience I see nothing that shows leadership in working in a complex organization. I see nothing that shows how she handles economic issues and builds a business environment. I see no educational experience, but wants to save public education. I would love to hear about her experiences in all of these important issues. I am not saying she is not qualified; I have nothing that tells me that she is.

Regarding funding, have you been aware of the major cuts all industries have taken since 2008? Do you understand that the taxpayer does not have any more money and cannot pay more?

Yes funding has been cut; we have to have a real budget and balanced at the State level. Snyder put one together in record time with his team that had no gimmicks and did not kick the can down the road.

I have yet to see all of the public sector take cuts like the private sector have during these tough economic times. They say they have not had raises, but they get step increases every year, who is doing the spinning now. The taxpayer cannot give more, so the funding needs to be adjusted.

Richard I have been a business person, and also a private practice counselor in my second career. I am now a school counselor. I am bright and capable and I was not deterred at all from choosing to enter public education. How do you know it "sucks", where is your proof? Do you know any teachers, and have you asked their opinion?

I think you are drinking the MEA haters kool-aid a bit too much if you think teachers are mostly stupid, only care about their paycheck, healthcare, and pensions, and have no real world skills (now that one really makes me laugh.) You seem to talk out of both sides of your mouth. First you say pay good teachers more, and then on the other side you show them great disdain. Well my friend if you think it is so easy to be a teacher why don't you spend a week in a classroom and try the job on for size? I would bet you would not last more than a day.

Dave,

The posting is not bias, I just gave my opinion and decision at the very end. The info is straight from the candidates’ websites and an interview in a Rochester newspaper.

If you noticed, I asked what do you think and why. But you decided to be negative and take a bashing at McMillin and not offer a positive on the other candidate.

Why you are choosing Joanna? Can you do this in a positive fashion and without bashing McMillin? How can she do the job that needs to be done based on her experience and plan? This is a job interview and we need real substance, not just general statements from a nice person. How about some details?

Pamela,

How about a positive statement about your candidate and how she can do the job. This bashing does not give her any credentials to do the job as a representative. No one seems to have any details on her experience and how she is going to pull off her plan, and her plan has no details, just general statements.

I am open to hearing the details of the plan. What is it? What is her experience in pulling off such a plan? What are the results of the plan?

Basic questions a person would ask in a job interview.

Renee,

I am not taking a shot at Joanna, she seems like a nice person with great passion. I am looking at this as a job interview and we need to know what is her experience and plan to improve our area. Just telling me she did great things at Crittenton Hospital is not good enough for me. What did she do?

How does this experience and work lead her to be a good representative?

Taking a shot at me is pretty funny and childish, it will not add anything to the inquiry of how a candidate is qualified to do the job. How about focusing on the subject at hand?

Rochester Mom,

Instead of bashing one candidate, tell us why you believe your candidate is the right one based on their experience, plan and statements. The idea is to read the 2 plans and comment on the plan you like and why, not a negative bash time with spin talking points.

How about telling us how you feel about the priorities and plan of your chosen candidate?

Can you explain your candidate's position against Common Core Standards, Joshua? He doesn't want MI compared nationally. Why? What is he afraid of?

You don't support public schools? Really? Would you like them all closed and shuttered? Do you have any idea of the new standards of evaluation and practice MI public schools are now performing for all of their employees? There always was an evaluation system in place, this is nothing new. It's just different. You are aware that the tenure laws changed, right? You need to go online and read what it says. Your concerns have been addressed. It's now state law/school code.

Rochester parents most certainly do have have choice. There are several school of choice districts in this area. Now you provide the transportation. This would be the same if some charter operator opened up in Rochester. I doubt they would have the money in their budget (or the desire to spend it) on providing transportation for their pupils.

Chris, you blur so much together that it is no wonder you are confused.

For example, you point with pride to the fact that your son had Algebra in 8th grade. That has nothing whatsoever to do with the MEA. And beyond that, it is, in a way, is playing catchup. Algebra is only considered a high school class in Michigan. In California, it is an 8th grade class.

In Common Core, it is a 9th grade class.

Common Core is an unfortunate byproduct of the historically low standards set by local school boards. There is a legitimate concern that having the overall curriculum set at the national level makes it all but impossible to improve or change at the local level.

I don't necessarily have a problem AT THIS MOMENT with common core because it is better than the weak system we have now. But it is a conflicted opinion because this is a frightening intrusion of the Federal Government into State, and even local rights and obligations. Once this camel has it's nose under our tent...

It is that philosophical intrusion that drives Republican objections to Common Core.

No Mike my son is in 8th grade currently and is taking Geometry. He will start his freshman year of high school in Algebra II. As far as common core goes, it will not prevent schools from offering acceleration. It didn't stop my district. I have also seen the ELA standards and the grammar and writing standards are quite rigorous. It's much better than what we had.

The problem with math is not all children have good math brains. Forcing them to accelerate will not make them learn it, some kids just need more time to learn the concepts. The funny thing is that the touted IB Academy in Bloomfield starts their freshman in Geometry for the most part.

Chris, I don't have "a candidate" and I won't explain someone else's positions. I will let them post their answers and state how they seem to me.

For me, I'm conflicted on Common Core. I don't think Michigan's Merit Curriculum was well thought out. I tend to prefer the German model where college and vocational tracks are supported. I also recognize that what might be best in an urban school may not be best in a rural school. However, it does make evaluation of students better and sets an expectation of what each should know.

I support children and education. I support families having choices. If public schools work best for your children, that is where they belong. If charter, magnet, private, parochial, or home schools work best for your children, that should be an option too. I support all of these when they do what is best for children and oppose them when they don't.

My children are in public schools and I attend every RCS Board of Education meeting. My wife is in the schools weekly volunteering. We support public schools. We just don't believe they should be the only option.

I'm aware of the new evaluation and tenure laws. I'm also aware that Proposal 2 would overturn these laws and put them back at the bargaining table. I don't know for certain either candidate's positions on this proposal, but if Ms. VanRaaphorst supports Proposal 2, she supports removing these laws. Do any of her supporters know her stance on Prop 2?

Mr. Creamer, I tried to express both views fairly as I saw them. There are a lot of people who are very happy with the status quo, particularly in RCS. It works well for them and their families. There are people who want change. Tom McMillin has voted for change. Some people think it is good change and some don't.

Personally, I don't think right now RCS works for many gifted children, so change interests me. If we were in a district like Grosse Pointe where the public schools have strong gifted programs, I would probably be in favor of the status quo.

I provided each candidate an opportunity to tell us in their own words, unfiltered, their views on gifted education. I did not editorialize in the articles about their views. Some members of Rochester SAGE will support Ms. VanRaaphorst and others support Mr. McMillin. And while I founded Rochester SAGE, I don't use it to drive a Democratic or Republican agenda, but to advocate for the best policies of each that improve options for gifted learners.

I am also a private citizen who has views that I can and do express independent of Rochester SAGE. I found aspects of both Ms. VanRaaphorst's and Mr. McMillin's answers good and aspects that were troubling. I am judging how they will benefit gifted students by the answers they have given and any past records. Please feel free to disagree and post your reasons for disagreeing. Let's discuss the issues.

Wow Mike I am highly insulted that you would suggest that I like nanny government because I am an MEA member, support JVR, and do not like Tom McMillin as my state representative. I am hardly a radical person, except that I do have a photo of George Bush #43 on my bulletin board in my office at school (yes, a public school, shhhhh!) I am an Independent voter, and my ticket will be split this year like it is most years.

I have been to a Tom town hall meeting and he answered me with rehashed Michelle Rhee quotes straight from the ALEC website, no doubt. The most troubling thing to me was that the information provided to him was incorrect. He isn't even aware of the facts and current research in education. That alone was troubling enough to to me.

Doug: Please explain why, in your viewpoint, the Michigan Chamber of Commerce is able to screen, recommend, and donate money to a candiate, yet the MEA is not allowed? Are business people smarter than workers?

I think we need to be careful about propagating this "straight-ticket" meme.

In the last Presidential election, over HALF of the people who voted for the winner Tom McMillin (and the loser Randy Young) specifically chose them by name on the ballot. GOP/DEM straight ticket was 47% / 44% respectively.

In the last "off year" election in 2010, over half voted straight-ticket, but there were still ~7500 people who directly voted for Tom, versus only 4000 that voted for Mary Ward.

No amount of revisionist effort is going to erase the fact that Tom won with 55% in 2008, and increased the margin to 65% in 2010.

In the case of school boards, the MEA endorsement is a clear conflict of interest. They offer support and money to candidates who will later be responsible for negotiating MEA compensation. It is the MEA's way of trying to have seats on both side of the table.

It's a bit different for a higher office. I don't think anyone is concerned that they are endorsing or contributing. But their contributions paint a very clear picture. They are endorsing and financing because the candidate agrees with a majority if their positions.

I think the MEA has much less regard for students, families, and taxpayers, and is far more concerned with their own self-interests. That's fine for them... and fine for their members, but it puts me at odds with them. I prefer to support a candidate that puts children and taxpayers FIRST.

Truth...fair question..

I believe the MEA has too much power and influence. When all the Rochester Board Members are backed by the same people they are supposed to negotaite with. thats a problem. The resist differentiating the good teachers and punishing the bad ones. We spend more than enough money per pupil and get a less than optimal result. The admininstration is no less at fault.

I am a huge proponent of teachers, just not their union. People can support and donate to whomever they feel represents them best. To me, this vote is not just about Tom vs Joanne. I disagree with alot of what Tom represents, but I firmly believe in the direction the Governor and legislature are taking the state.

Not everyone will like the steps, but the results will spek for themselves. I can speak firsthand to one fact. People outsode Michigan are starting to look at our state again. That will be derailed if the proposals pass next week. Moodys has delayed rating the state until after the election. , .

Doug, some people are looking at Michigan as the new Mississippi because of Tom McMillin and his friends like Dave Agema, Gary Glenn. Bad advertising. Nothing wrong with a little moderation. Joanna seems to be more of a uniter than a divider. McMillin is dangerous .I vote Republican but this guy needs to go to send a message to the rest. We need more Republicans like the recently deceased Arlen Specter in this state and less like Rick Santorum. McMillin has a dead end political career going for himself. Let's not let him stink up this town any longer. Checks and balances. McMillin is not on the team to move Michigan forward. He is taking money from the Morouns and therefore attempting to inhibit what is in the best interest of any company in this state that can benefit from improved logistics. That's every company. I have never voted a straight ticket and people like Tom McMillin are the reason why.

Are you kidding me? "Some people" are judging Michigan based on Tom McMillin? That is a stretch, even for this crowd.

I imagine that the number of people in Michigan that can even identify their own legislator is less than half... and I'd bet it's SIGNIFICANTLY less than half.

The idiot Senate candidates who made the stupid comments about abortion... I'd wager that the number of people who can name them... or even name the state they were from... is in single digit percentages. Those comments got national attention... and were for a MUCH higher office.

Yet somehow you think that Tom has some sort of influence on immigration to/from Michigan? You honestly think more than a handful of people outside of the state know about Tom?

Can't agree on that Marianne. :-) Not in EITHER case.

Paul, look at all of the hate you guys release in your comments.

Mike, Am I supposed to be blind to the fact that Tom McMillin has strong ties to hate groups? That is a fact. I'm not trying to be mean but it is disturbing to me that this community has someone like that representing us. The south had the Dixiecrats and now we have people like Tom McMillin.

OMG, the drama of it all. Enough of this "hate group" exaggeration nonsense.

Tom give liberals a target rich environment of legitimate philosophical differences. You could make legitimate liberal arguments against him.

Instead you drone on and on with this fabricated "hate" rhetoric.

That seems to be the same thing Tom calls people when they disagree with him "Liberal". I'm NRA member, independent voter. Gary Glenn is a hate group leader. Check out the link to his site posted by the other gentleman. Crude and offensive hate speech. Not representative of the people that I know in this community. Please, save the talk radio labels for someone else. I'm not a Liberal. However, if defending human beings makes me one, so be it.

Chris,

Share your job interview results of Joanna with the rest of us. All I see is attacks on McMillin with no positive comments on why Joanna is the right choice.

What questions did you ask her in the job interview?
What were her answers?

Share the details and we can each evaluate if she is up for the job. No one seems to want to give any details; all they want to do is attack McMillin.

Just read the posts, it is a classic Distract, Divert, Distort, Discredit and Demonize strategy that adds no value to the conversation. It is a sign of someone loosing the debate, so they have to change the subject.

Daryl, Daryl, Daryl, there you go again insisting I post the "facts" of why I am voting for Joanna. Take a look at Dorothy's post way up top in this thread. She said it better than I can and it's full of facts.

Yes I AM distracted by Tom. He is an irritant, he is distracting to the progress in MI due to his narrow focus on social issues that are way out of step with most of the population here in the 45th district. He is diverting attention away from jobs and true education reform by underfunding our schools and focusing on gay people and Gary Glenn's hate agenda. I have not distorting one thing i have posted here, I calls 'em like I sees 'em. Tom does a good enough job discrediting himself and the Republican party every time he opens up his mouth, he doesn't need my help there. Demonize? Really? If Tom appears to be off base and a bit creepy it's only because we have brought to light what he believes, what he stands for, who his friends are, and what he has done for the citizens in this district. In other words SQUAT.

Bruce,

You are rewriting history to meet your agenda. The Romney OPED was for government back loans in the normal bankruptcy model. The scare tactic you use that the industry was going to disappear is just plain false. Many large companies go through bankruptcy and do not disappear. Obama took control of the situation and gave a special deal to the UAW (unsecured) and in this special deal he took money from regular people (secured investors) and they lost everything.

If GM and Chrysler went through normal bankruptcy, like Romney proposed, the secured and unsecured investors would have been treated normally. There would be no special deals for special interest groups.

GM and Chrysler were given plenty of breaks in the Obama bankruptcy and Ford had to do it the hard way. The government owns stock in GM and will not get a return on their investment.

No one wants to talk about Chrysler! I thought he saved them too! Why are you not using them in your talking points?

The reason no one talks about Chrysler is because they were given to a foreign car company with tax dollars wrapped around it. We now have a big 2 in the US auto industry. If Chrysler comes up it blows the whole narrative that Obama saved the auto industry when he gave it to Fiat. He ignored other US companies that wanted to buy Chrysler.

Your spin does not pass the smell test. You are counting on the talking points and looking for sheep to follow your false narrative.

You only said radical twice, and never once mentioned ALEC. What gives?

Bruce,

You keep changing the subject at hand to avoid answering the basic question. Why specifically with details do you support Joanna? All I see from you is Tom bashing for the reason to support Joanna.

Again, no one seems to want to comment on why in a positive way they support Joanna with details, not just general comments. You keep avoiding this and then distract the subject at hand and then demonize McMillin.

How about giving us your view and details?

Daryl, you keep wanting everyone to give a positive reason for their vote, while most political reality is based on negatives, not positives. Negative ads wouldn't be used if they didn't have an influence. In a perfect world we would see only positive points but this is far from a perfect world. Just like this presidential vote, more people will be voting against Obama than will be voting for Romney. When the negatives are so glaring, as is the case with both Romney and Mcmillen, those points are important enough to be pointed out. Basing your vote on negatives, is far more important at times than just playing nice.

Sometimes the damage that someone can generate, is far more important than what the other candidate may offer that is positive. You have to look at how things may affect your neighbors as well, not just yourself. Voting for the letter behind a name, voting for ideology over progress, voting for religious convictions over ethical or moral values, rarely leads to good outcomes. Fear, greed, religion, and selfishness all play too big of a role in far too many peoples mind when it comes to politics. It is time to start voting for the best candidate, not the one who tows the party line the best.

Dee,

Yes I want a positive discussion and reasons why people are voting for a particular candidate without bashing the other one. I keep asking for reasons people are voting for Joanna and all we see are negative slams against McMillin. That is their rationale to selecting Joanna, she is not McMillin.

All I want to hear is who she is. All we see are general statements on her website, interviews and these supporters’ comments. What is her plan? How is her professional experience help her pull off her plan? What are the results of her plan?

These are basic questions we should ask of any candidate to understand what they are going to do and perform if we elect them. Then we can hold them accountable to their promises.

This is the approach of this posting, getting people to share why they are selecting their particular candidate. It has turned into a McMillin bashing. I am looking forward to both candidates filling out my Candidate Questionnaire form and seeing what their approach would be.

However, the bashing will continue and it now includes me because I am asking fair questions that I am not getting answers to. This is disappointing, but expected.

Daryl, President Obama did his best to bring the parties together to solve the country's big problems. However, the Republicans, as has been revealed this year, met on Inauguration Day and decided to completely stonewall the President on everything,. Therefore, we have seen a record number of filibusters to keep Republicans from voting for anything the Democrats tried to pass.

The problem is not the President.. I suggest you and your fellow Republicans look in the mirror.

You forget to say radical or ALEC.

Dorothy,

You are not reading and comprehending the posting, you are just looking to bash McMillin. Now this list is not "my list" of McMillin's accomplishments, it is his list from his website and interview. Just like I posted Joanna's list from her website and interview. That is all we have about these 2 candidates from their own mouth.

The results I listed on the Michigan turnaround are facts since Snyder took office and we still have a way to go. So we can deal with the facts as stated, or go down the path you have chosen with plenty of company and just attack McMillin.

I will ask you like I have asked many others in this post, tell me in a positive way why you are choosing Joanna? Give us some details, not just she is a nice person and general statements. Look at the Candidate Questionnaire form I have asked both candidates to fill out so we can post it, can you answer these questions about Joanna?

All of these attacks are meant to distract, we are intelligent people and see this approach and want some straight answers, not spin. The attacks are just meaningless noise and add nothing of value to the conversation.

Join the conversation with real points about your candidate.

I most certainly am reading and comprehending your propaganda. If you read what I wrote, you'll see it isn't bashing. It is the truth, and it just feels like Hell because you can't handle the truth. I gave you a succinct and coherent list of reasons why I am voting against Tom McMillin. But for good measure, here are a few more. Joanna actually likes humans, even ones that are different from here. She is smart, and she believes in science. She doesn't hate government, yet make her living off of it. She won't take our schools' money and give it to her for-profit charter pals in Detroit. She isn't an ideologue who wants to privatize government so she can redistribute away from the people and the community and give it to her right wing pals. When you take off your team jersey and stop with the GOP partisanship, you won't need an explanation as to why anyone would vote against McMillin and the rest of the crazy right wing radicals that have absconded with the Republican Party.

A “succinct and coherent list of reasons”?

“She won't take our schools' money and give it to her for-profit charter pals in Detroit.”

This is meant to attack Tom, not praise JVR.

Tom considers the money allocated for the child, and would like to give parents some in how it should be allocated for their child. This accusation that he somehow has “pals” who will profit is baseless demagoguing.

You can’t accept a reasonable different of opinion on how to approach education, so you toss out completely unfounded accusations, which completely defy logic.

Tom doesn’t approve the charters, nor can he force parents to move their children to charters. A charter is approved by someone other than Tom. Then, after FIRST investing money in infrastructure, the charter needs to PERSUADE parents to VOLUNTARILY move their children. It takes years to recoup any investment. Even if the funding was philanthropic, the charter needs to satisfy parents, or they will move their kids. (Bruce chimes in… speculation from Cassandra is not proof that this happens often.)

Do you really think that Tom started a decade before his election to cooked-up this elaborate, multi-year plan of charter creation and approval, investment, and sustained enrollment as part of some scheme to profit a group of people he does not even know? Nobody in Michigan… not the governor, not the combined legislature, not all of them together has capability to pull off this fantasy of yours.

Mr. Reno: "Yeah, preach it like reverend jeremiah wright" There isn't a dime's worth of difference between McMillin and Wright. They are both ideologues - just different sides of the same coin. Without hiring you a tutor, how much plainer can I say that McMillin took our kids money and gave it to for-profit charter schools in Detroit. How much plainer can I say that McMillin gets his money from charter schools, Moroun, and the Koch brothers; while JoAnna gets her money from Rochester residents and Republicans who are sick and tired of radical right wing ideologues and big mouths. How much plainer can I say that McMillin hates gays, teachers, unions, public schools, and students; and Joanna models respect for teachers, the role of unions, the history of the public school system, and the importance of a good solid public education for our kids. McMillin is a bigot, and Joanna judges people on character and actions. McMillin is rude, nasty and divisive and loves it. Joanna is a team player and a bridge builder. And last but not least, McMillin - the guy who hates government but loves his government paycheck - made damn sure he got his retirement benefits before he voted to slammed the door on the guy behind him. McMillin campaign slogan should be: " Hooray for me, and the hell with you. "

Dorothy, you must be the product of public education, given your lack of understand of how the legislative process works.

Legislators are not able to make changes that would impact themselves. Legislation such as the retirement plan can only be made effective beginning with the next session of the legislature.

It is meant to prevent legislators from making changes that would benefit themselves without first having to face the voters.

And only a liberal would complain about the government ending a benefit (or "entitlement").

I am glad that the Republican addresses this goofy retirement plan, and am glad they are now moving to other unaffordable retirement programs as well.

The 53% of us who do pay taxes are facing a tremendous burden, and something needs to change, especially with the extra $5 trillion Obama added to the debt that our children and grandchildren must bear.

Dorothy, we simply have to meet. You are, in a word, AWESOME!

I was thinking of a different word! :-)

Yeah, preach it like reverend jeremiah wright

I wish there was a better system to evaluate judges. Most of us know so little. Your support sounds partisan.

Whaddya think Bruce... Is he radical too?

He's a Republican. He don't need no steenkin data; he has faith and arrogance. As they said at the GOP convention, not going to let stupid fact checkers get in our way. As a Rochester resident, I am delighted he is no longer on our school board. If you hate government, you have no business taking its money or setting its policy.

Bruce,

I reviewed the information I posted in the original blog of both candidates from their website and interview. From that information and the results Michigan has achieved since Snyder took office I made my decision. I believe McMillin was part of the team that created those results.

I attended a seminar in Lansing a few years ago which was presented to business owners showing the current rankings of all states and how Michigan compared. Michigan was in very poor competitive position to attract business. In this seminar they presented their plan. After time this plan created the results I listed earlier in my comments. I see us moving in the right direction and I want the team that created the plan and results to keep moving us forward in Michigan. That is the basis of my decision to support this successful team.

I just created this Candidate Questionnaire form a few days ago and presented it to the candidates to fill out. They both agreed and I hope to post them soon. I will not post the forms until I have both in my hands, it would not be fair to put one up before the other. Also, I told them I would share both forms with each of them before I post them on the Patch so they know what is being made available to the public. I believe this is the fair way to distribute this info.

In my opinion this information will help people look at each candidate without the spin and distortions. But that is my opinion.

Bruce, you completely miss the boat on EITC, and the long term harm it can cause.

Try reading "The Tragedy of American Compassion" by Marvin Olasky

“How edifying indeed to learn that over 200 years of truly compassionate reformers had warned us against the mockery of compassion that is the welfare state, that it would deprive the needy of essential personal contact with benefactors and volunteers, that it would lend "assistance" breeding dependence and personal ruin, and that it would fail to make the great demands on givers and recipients alike necessary to render compassion either true or effective.”

http://www.amazon.com/Tragedy-American-Compassion-Marvin-Olasky/dp/089526725X

(Oh, and you forgot to mention radical or ALEC.)

...................................

http://www.salon.com/2012/10/30/mitt_romney_the_hollow_man/
Mitt Romney, the hollow man -- Romney likens hurricane relief to cleaning up "rubbish and paper products" from a football field. Is he joking? By Joan Walsh

...................................

http://www.realchange.org/romney.htm
Mitt Romney's Skeleton Closet: Scandals, Quotes, and Character

...................................

Wrong post to post this -- Daryl... forgive me -- but if you can find the time read these links and please explain to patch readers why you are voting for a liar for president?

Scot,

As usual you are not on subject and spreading your ideas as the only way. I wish you well in your ventures, there is no reason to dialog with you. If someone disagrees with you they are stupid and just are not listening. Not worth my time to get into a dialog with you, it is the same circle talk. Good luck!

Daryl Patrishkoff -- thanks for your perfect response -- that's the problem... and you are the perfect example -- when faced with the truth... all the far right, like you and your friend Tom Mcmillin do is turn off the conversation... make up stuff and name call.

P.S. going to reward you with a new title... LOL the Sean Hannity of Rochester, I love to watch his show -- when Hannity is faced with the facts he just rudely interrupts his guests and cuts to a commercial. Daryl -- good luck!

Scot,

Thanks for posting another non-subject related picture on a blog post. Clearly you need to write your own post and lay out your position on this election, stop trying to use others work to push your points with insults and non related subjects.

Try to do something positive, not just take shots and insults at people that are expressing their opinions in a public forum. Your approach is just meaningless noise and you are making a fool of yourself.

I look forward to reading you posting stating your position and why. I will respectfully comment on your posts and stay on subject. I am just asking you show some respect and follow some form of integrity.

Daryl...

Thanks for your response -- thought for a moment our verbal sparring was coming to an end in the Rochester Patch. Ever since you wrote your OP-EDs in the Patch that The City of Rochester Hills was run like Detroit and Pontiac and was going out of business... and our Older Persons' Commission (OPC) -- I have felt quite obligated to through your opinion under the bus. Via... in my personal emails, phone calls; even hand shakes up at City Hall, (OPC)... hundreds have read our our verbal sparring. The feed back of all those great residents and employees is the only one who looks 'foolish' in the Rochester Patch is you. Daryl... keep trying someday you actually might make some sense somewhere. LOL

Ryan V ... Yes stay on subject -- funny...? it's going to take some research -- Tom Mcmillin might be the only Republican in Michigan supporting Matty Moroun bridge debacle constitutional amendment... oh well politicians like Tom Mcmillin always vote where the money comes from. Question: If Tom Mcmillin and Rick Snyder work as a team...? LOL than why has Rick Snyder come out with this quote:

PROPOSAL SIX - A Billionaire's Special Interest Monopoly Standing in the Way -- "If there's one proposal we've heard a lot about, it's Proposal Six. On the surface, the issue is about the New International Trade Crossing - the new bridge to Canada. But if you dig deeper, you'll see that Proposal Six would have even more far-reaching consequences. While the proposal is intended to protect one company's monopoly on truck crossings between Detroit and Canada, it was sloppily written and jeopardizes ANY bridge under construction today that won't be completed by January 1, 2013, or any bridge built thereafter. We need the new bridge to Canada - and modern infrastructure - if we want to reinvent Michigan and bring more and better jobs to our state. Thanks to an iron-clad agreement, we can build a new bridge to Canada without any cost to Michigan taxpayers. The project will help industries all across our state grow stronger which would lead to important long term job creation. In the short term, it will help create 10,000 new construction jobs.

The new bridge will be a great benefit for our state, and we shouldn't let one billionaire and his special interest monopoly get in the way." by Rick Snyder

http://www.michigan.gov/snyder/0,4668,7-277-60279-286346--,00.html

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20121029/MIVIEW/210290438

"In its decidedly one-sided coverage of the Detroit bridge battle, Michigan's MSM has demonized a Michigan businessman in favor of a foreign government, Canada.

You don't have to endorse Moroun's over-the-top, misleading ads - or his ballot proposal - to know that is exactly what the Canadian government is doing to the Ambassador Bridge Company.

In a decades-long war with Moroun, the Canadian government has tried repeatedly to put the Michigan mogul out of business, jealous that a private company is making money on "their" international border crossing. What is dumb-founding is that it has found a Michigan governor and American government to ally with them to destroy a profitable, American business."

Some facts and math regarding “the bridge”. A 80,000lb gross semi-truck crossing at Blue Water $3.25 per axle. 5 axles $16.25.

Crossing at Ambassador $4.50 per axle $22.50. So the Ambassador bridge is already $6.25 more. OK not too bad of a hit. Now the kicker.

No other toll bridge let alone international crossing I know of or my trucker friend knows of does the following. Math time folks.

The Ambassador bridge runs ALL trucks over their private scales. Then they charge 3 cents for every 100 pounds gross. 80,000 lbs adds another $24 to the toll. NO other bridge does this.
So my friend crosses at Blue Water because of the terrible traffic and the extra cost. He is not alone. One man’s monopoly is hurting plenty of other small businesses. So $46.50 one way on Ambassador while same truck and load $16.25 on the Blue Water.
That extra $30.25 comes out of the owner operator’s pocket Yes the commercial trucks will leave the Ambassador crossing. Any smart business person would.

Since when is "competition" a bad thing?

Mike... not to sure that the Canadian Government is only out to ruin a Michigan business man...? I think over the past decade this has been more driven by a Canadian Government that actually represents the voices of their constituents. This is a land use issue and our neighboring friends of Windsor Ontario -- Sandwich Town a historical middle class neighborhood that doesn't want additional bridge truck traffic... Mike have you ever been over there -- I have had numerous great advertising clients from this area of town... it's quite pretty.

The Battle Of The Bridge
http://www2.metrotimes.com/news/story.asp?id=9236
"They're as bad as any corporate neighbor could ever be," she says. "They've never once consulted with the people here" on the planned expansion. "For them to go ahead and twin the bridge, Sandwich Town would lose 120 acres and they'd build a road right through the center of the area."

..............................

Sandwich Town is located along the Canadian border of the Detroit River, and was established in 1797. It is considered one of the oldest, most historically significant settlements in Ontario and has been the site of several historically significant events in Ontario's history. Many historic buildings remain in Old Sandwich Town and the area hosts an annual festival to celebrate its heritage.

Mike... I continue to find it sad that some Americans continue to have a pompous attitude towards the world, even its closest Canadian neighbors.

Marty... that was an interesting post.

Not sure what you mean about competition... sounds like it is working if your friend can use the Blue Water bridge, right?

Unless you mean competition between the Ambassador bridge and the government. Then, it is not really a level playing field. The government has an endless supply of resources... through taxation. And, they make the rules / laws, whereas a private corporation cannot. Impossible to compete with a monopoly.

And Scot... no, I don't know anything about Sandwich town. Any government confiscation of private property is a problem. Didn't Michigan / Detroit confiscate property during the road construction leading up to the proposed new bridge?

I am really not following this whole bridge issue, and plan on voting NO on that proposal. I don't believe for a minute this whole "free bridge" nonsense being spewed by the proponents of the bridge. I don't like that the governor is doing an end-run around the legislature. And I would much prefer to see a private sector project instead of a government monopoly. But this proposal is just poorly constructed and I am reluctant to support it.

Mike... It would have been MDOT that purchased the land to build the freeway ramps to nowhere. http://www.freep.com/article/20120417/BUSINESS06/204170331/Controversial-ramp-along-Ambassador-Bridge-being-removed Mike... still looking who MDOT bought the land from -- but this hwy blunder is now at more cost to the taxpayer is being corrected.
..................................
New International Trade Crossing 
Michigan's Bridge to the Future 
Canada and the US Need This Bridge Now: Get the Facts 
Posted on November 2, 2012 by Admin
"The rationale for this bridge is clear. Over Eight million jobs in the US, including 237,100 jobs in Michigan, depend on trade and investment with Canada. Much of this relies on the Ambassador Bridge, which saw more than $120 billion worth of trade cross over it in 2011. This is fully one quarter of Canada-US trade in goods, making it the most important bridge crossing in the world. However, the Ambassador Bridge is 83 years old, is too narrow for today’s needs and lacks adequate customs plazas. In addition, access to the bridge is located in downtown Windsor, which requires trucks to travel through residential streets and 16 traffic lights to reach the on-ramp. Any plans to expand the current bridge do not therefore solve the larger congestion and delay problems." Yours sincerely, Gary Doer Ambassador of Canada to the United States of America more info at http://buildthedricnow.com/

#Introduced a Light Bulb Freedom Bill
* In order to stop needless government intrusion. Republicans believe people are smart enough to choose their own light bulbs.

#Voted to tax seniors and gave huge tax breaks to corporations!
* And cut taxes for everyone in Michigan who pays income taxes. This was also an overall reduction in the taxes confiscated by the government.

#Signed the Koch brothers AMERICAN’S FOR PROSPERTY PLEDGE TO NEVER RAISE TAXES
* And this is a bad thing?

#Voted for emergency managers bill to usurp local government control!
* As he should've. This is only used in extreme cases where they local government has show a complete and utter failure to manage their money, and the financial responsibility would fall on all of the taxpayers of Michigan.

#Supports giving our educational tax dollars to out of state corporations!
* Wrong. Supports giving choice to parents who want the best for their children. Sorry if it threatens your MEA monopoly.

Dorothy,

The seniors are only public sector pensions that are now being taxed. The rest of us poor suckers have been paying all along, nice try with the spin. Also, now the only special interest groups that do not have to pay taxes on their pensions are the Military and Railroad retirees. How do you feel about them getting special treatment?

Your "Gay Bashing" legislation is a liberal treatment of discriminated against groups. If you actually read the bill and ignore the spin, you will find it protects all from discrimination, not just one special group. Why do you want more special interest groups?

I agree with the emergency manager bill, the elected officials did not do their job and they want free money without obligation from the State. Then they can continue their mismanagement and waste some more money. This is an interim step before bankruptcy, so if we do not have this in place, then they just go bankrupt. How is that going to help get them back on track? I believe in the interim step, obviously you do not; "let them go bankrupt" is your outcome without this bill.

Again, I keep trying, how about a positive note on your support of your candidate without bashing the other, or the people that do not agree with you. We all still have the right to have and voice our own opinion, why do you keep the negative attacks up?

Yeah... thinking way back, I can remember those quotes from Brooks. It was during the time when he and Tom were political adversaries. Can't remember... was that in this century, or last?

You do know now that Brooks has endorsed Tom, and that he and Tom are pictured together on Tom's most recently mailing, with quotes from Brooks supporting Tom?

Todd... we'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and accept that you are simply misinformed, or are not very good with timelines. Otherwise, we would be left to conclude that you are intentionally spreading false information.

The Brooks / McMillin fight was years ago.

I thought the picture and quotes were from this year, but I just checked on they were from a few years back (which is why I'm correcting this post). Brooks has endorsed Tom in every one of his house elections.

Tom would not include Brooks on a mailer without consent.

People have tried in the past to use pictures of themselves with Brooks, implying his approval, but doing so without his consent. Kim Russell comes to mind. Brooks is not shy about letting the truth be known.

Mike how come, in my latest political advertising pieces from Oakland County Republicans, Tom is conspicuously absent? I don't think Mike B squared, Brooks, Marty, John, and Bill like him either. Now you may say that it is because it is an "Oakland County" ad, but I think it may be because they do not want to be associated with him or that other pinhead Brad Jacobsen who is just a little bit further north of us.

We might say it is an "Oakland County Ad" because it IS an Oakland County ad.

It's Oakland County Executive, Oakland County Prosecutor, Treasurer, and so on.

I don't think it had Romney/Ryan either. Should we read something into that?

Maybe because it has been on Tom's website for some time now?

http://www.taxpayersfortom.com/

And because I asked.

Actually, I'm glad you caused me to take a look at his website... reminded me that I wanted to donate to Tom's campaign, so that we can keep the state moving forward with Republican leadership! :-)

Mike why don't you write a check to your local PTA? Your money would be better spent.

I do every year, Chris. Several times.. If you count ll of the fundraisers.

This year the PTA has decided to use part of the money I donated to promote Proposal 2.

The underlying reason for your suggestion comes across loud and clear.

Not sure why that is a problem?

I took a look at that list, and I see lots of my friends on that list!

I also took a look at hers: http://miboecfr.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/cfr/com_det.cgi?com_id=515642

Same list of usual liberal suspects... certainly no "surge" of Republicans looking for change, as some have suggested. At best, it's the same list of RINOs.

What was interesting was over 20% of JVR's contributions came from organized labor, such as the MEA, Carpenters Union, and even the UAW. Anyone THEY support is not likely to be advocating for people like me and my family.

It looks like Tom received contributions from those who operate McDonald's franchises too. As much as he did from the Moroun's.

I just knew there was something sinister (radical?) about Ronald.

Tom spearheaded some great transparency legislation, such as requiring all schools to post budgets and union contracts online.

Of course, that is not popular among those who would rather see that information stay in the shadows. They can't be too overt in their protests over this, so they create other straw man issues to float against him.

Why is RINO "childish"? It is meant to be descriptive... as in people who might claim to be Republican, but do not support GOP issues or candidates.

And Liberal is just the opposite perspective from Conservative. It's a perspective, not a label. Those that think that way should not be embarrassed about it.

Your claims about the Troy library are completely wrong. You should instead be upset with the Troy City Council... they were holding the Library hostage.

JVR outraised McMillin by a couple of thousand dollars... after receiving $5000 from the MEA, and $1000 from the UAW, as well as other labor groups. Over 20% of her money came from those special interest PACs.

There is nothing improper about accepting the money... but don't ignore it either.

And this "career politician" thing is amusing, given that this is Tom's first FULL TIME elected office.

Lol!

Oh, and "Radical".

Nothing you said, in particular...It has just been a while since Bruce or Dorothy posted the word.

Most people aren't as arrogant as Reno, Raymond and Patrishkoff. Good point.

Thanks Tony. So far you've added a lot to the discussion. You've labeled us as arrogant, and sophomorically made fun of Richard's name.

Sophomoric

OMG... the gall of Tom McMillin. How dare that carpetbagger move into our community.

Of course, he could not possibly have moved here because he likes the community, or found a great house, or could finally afford to live in Rochester Hills.

I'm sure he decided to move here so that he could toss his hat into a crowded field of popular candidates and run in a very expensive and challenging primary. Yeah... that's it.

Dorothy is obnoxious, but at least she attempts to make points. These sort of juvenile comments, on the other hand, add nothing to the discussion.

You seem to fixate more on personalities, rather than positions or philosophies. You need to try to critical thinking... instead of being critical of people.

I could care less about Maroun and his bridge... but I am more concerned about the government overstepping what should be very limited intrusion into the private sector.

And I am certainly not going to defend Daniels, but the issue of government attempting to blackmail people into voting for higher taxes is something that should be of concern to all of us.

At least all of us that pay taxes.

Not sure how your twisted logic arrived at that conclusion... but two thoughts.

1) I am not running for anything, and I don't speak for Tom.
2) If you are going to quote me... please don't introduce spelling errors or typos that I did not make."

OMG... where does one start?

I would like to see the districts create tracks that allow the students to proceed a faster pace if they are capable. Right now the classes have a single speed.

I would like some say in teacher selection. It is not hard to identify those that will challenge kids... and those who are coasting. I don't want my child stuck in a classroom where the teacher is coasting. Public schools bristle at the suggestion of changing because of teacher reputation.

I would like a school that offers a longer school year.

I would prefer a more rigorous ELA curriculum. Stronger focus on STEM. Project-based learning.

Choices improve a bit in secondary, but there is incredibly limited opportunities in elementary to find ways to challenge children who learn quickly.

The list could go on. The point isn't so much about these specific items... it is about how the school responds to requests... the schools inability to be flexible... in general, they are not "customer centric"

Of course, for every parent who complains about school being too easy, there are probably TWO parents who complain about it being too hard. Schools probably try to waddle in the middle, and in general have a single-solution approach. They try to put lipstick on it with phrases like "differentiation", which is nothing more than window dressing.

I don't want to paint with too broad of a brush, because some administrators are receptive to helping. But sometimes their hands are tied.

And some teachers will do what they can. But they are limited in what they can do because the schools lump all of the kids together by age, rather than ability. With such a broad range of learning skills in these children, it is unrealistic to expect reasonable pacing.

Mike I am going to try to address your concerns in order, but I will probably have to do this in a few posts. I am fairly certain that parents have the right to requests that their student test out of individual subject classes in order to accelerate. I am know you can do this in high school, and I am almost 100% sure you can do this in the middle school years. Just ask and see what they say. My understanding is they cannot deny your child that opportunity. In elementary years the more common practice is to just skip whole grades if a child is needing across the board acceleration.

I am with you on parent request for teacher selection. We allow it in my school (a middle school) but the caveat is we team so you get all four core if there is one teacher you want on that team. We will not cross team a student, it makes it difficult for assessment scheduling and such. I do think people in public schools bristle a bit at this, but let me give you the other side of the coin. I get phone calls requesting "anyone but THAT teacher" for their child. Fill in the blank with "that teacher's" name, it can change with every phone call. Unfortunately sometimes the parent rumor mill gets started and unfairly pegs a teacher as: mean, incompetent, too hard, etc. When it is truly one person's perception and then the mob effect takes over because another parent's kid got a "C" in that teachers class and their kid is an "all A student" and on and on it goes. (PART 1)

(PART 2)Really? Your child is going to get all A's the rest of their life? Well OK then, how do I as a counselor answer that one? What I do know is some of our best, brightest, most competent, bend over backward to help a kid who is struggling for any reason teachers get labeled unfairly because they have high standards in their class. The most important consideration for teacher selection in my opinion is learning style, and for many boys I am AOK with trying to get more male teachers in their schedule.

I am not opposed to a longer school year, but you will have to fund the schools better because costs will increase, and it's not just for salaries. However, I am curious to know why you think we need a longer school year.

The new common core standards are very rigorous for grammar and writing, I love them. My kid, not so much, lol. However, he wants to be a writer, so suck it up buttercup. My school is focusing on STEM and project base learning, but not at the expense of the arts or PE. Another new thing that can help all students, but was designed to benefit at risk kids who have no support at home is called Flip Teaching. Flip teaching needs a lot of technology, so there go your rising costs again.

(PART 3) So does STEM. However, not all children can or want to be engineers or IT specialists or in health care. We also need to start preparing kids for those high skilled, do not need a four year degree jobs that are going unfilled. Our vocational campuses need more funding to provide these programs, and parents would be doing their children a disservice if they scoff at a vocational/college prep blend of high school classes for their child. Not every kid needs a four year degree to be successfully and gainfully employed. I know that's just blasphemy to some parents, but it's true.

"Choices improve a bit in secondary, but there is incredibly limited opportunities in elementary to find ways to challenge children who learn quickly." I haven't had my child in RCS for almost six years, so I cannot offer a thought on this comment that is particular to RCS. However, a G & T program would be a solution. They are very expensive to run just starting with even the assessment process. Then you have to have more teachers, and probably one magnet school to house these learners. It can be in an existing building, but they probably would be most efficiently run if all the learners go to one location. There are districts in MI that still offer G & T programs. My sister chose not to have her son assessed at the end of 5th grade for their G & T program because she didn't want to rock his world with changing friends, school buildings, etc. right as he was entering middle school.

(PART 4) I really appreciate the last part of your comments because you have nailed it right on the head. In public education we have so may people to please, I feel very sorry for my bosses on a daily basis. Would I want to be a public school administrator in MI right now? Not on your life. I do take a customer service approach to my work because I have a public contact job as a counselor. My philosophy is (stolen from my mentor and he stole it from someone else) "People do not care what you know until they know you care." Sometimes I can make parents happy, and sometimes I cannot. Sometimes my hands are not tied, but a parent is being unrealistic or they are asking me to help them do something that is not good for their child. I am a child advocate first and a parent pleaser second. I have to weigh everything and then make the best recommendation for the learner. Usually it works out OK, parents just need someone on their side to listen and help them sort it all out. More counselors in public schools would be a good start, but with funding cuts we are among the first to go. The recommended counselor/learner ratio by the research team lead by Dr. Trish Hatch is one counselor for every 250 students K-12. We are far from that in MI. However, she was able to convince Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger of this need and he helped fund (I think he gave them 5 million) more school counselor positions for CA public schools. Is Snyder willing to do the same?

Chris and Mike,

I am very impressed with this latest dialog you 2 are having. Both of you have real experience in this subject and are intelligently posting your opinion with some rationale. In reading these comments I have learned quite a bit about both sides of the debate and I am sure I am not the only one who read these that learned some insight into the subject

It is also clear both of you agreed on some issues and the more the intelligent conversation continues, you will probably find more common ground. The spin doctors with targeted tag lines that confuse are afraid of a real conversation about all elements of the subject; it does not fit their hidden agenda.

This was my whole idea of the original post on having a civil conversation with people stating their positions in a positive constructive way. In this political "silly season" the attacks have continued that add no value to the person who wants to be an informed voter by doing their due diligence and listening to an intelligent debate to help them decide how to cast their vote.

Thanks for the comments and I know I have learned things reading them.

Chris,

I wanted to address some of the G/T comments since that is my area of expertise.

While you can get your children partially accelerated, the trickier part is the knowledge gaps. My children have been tested for partial acceleration in math. Every subject they knew they answered 100% correctly. However, there were concepts like area that we hadn't taught them that they missed. The district requires 90% for accelerating and they scored 75-80%, which would probably be acceptable for an end-of-the-year score to advance them to the next grade. So what did the school do with a student who knows 3/4s of the year's math curriculum? Put her right back in the regular math class! We did not believe that to be acceptable, but got nowhere with the teacher and principal. After switching schools, we are seeing better and hoping for better.

One suggestion I gave to the school board and administration was to have an acceleration class during their summer learning program. Parents pay for this program, so it doesn't cost the district money. This could be used to fill knowledge gaps and accelerate learners so they don't have the majority of their year repeated. It's a win for everyone.

However, just skipping grades often isn't enough. I was accelerated two full years in math and it was still too easy because the pace was too slow for me. Consequently, I never learned to study, work hard, or overcome obstacles. I'm sure you would agree that these are vital skills.

While I agree that some gifted programs can be expensive, some are not. Grosse Pointe Public Schools has a great example. Their gifted magnet program saves the district money. First, the identification they use is part of their standard testing for every student. Second, they have the same number of teachers since the students are just shifted around. Third, they have attracted students back from private and parochial schools with this program. Their superintendent had members of RCS administration and three members of Rochester SAGE, including Mike and me, to view their gifted magnet program. What we saw was amazing! The kids were far beyond similar kids in RCS. Very importantly, they were comfortable being gifted. This is so rare in schools! Dr. Harwood is very willing to present to the RCS Board how it saves their district money if they are willing to invite him.

There are other free methods such as ability grouping and cluster grouping that can help with accelerating gifted learners, but most schools in RCS don't use them. The district policy when there are gifted learners in a grade appears to be to put them in separate classrooms. Is it easier for four teachers to differentiate for one gifted student each or one teacher to differentiate for four students similar in level? The district policy doesn't seem to make sense. That is another thing I would like to see changed.

Chris, skipping classes by testing out is not an effective answer, yet it is often the only answer offered by schools.

A child might not be able to test out of geometry because they have never been exposed to it. But they might be able to learn it in a semester, rather than a full year.

Pacing is the problem. They feed these kids at the same pace, rather than adapting to their learning abilities.

But again, the bigger problem is the response to parents, and the options available to parents.

Schools will claim to have a program... Like "testing out". And if you as a parent are looking for other options... Too bad. Take it, or leave it. Oh, and I'd you choose to leave it... You are free to take your child, but leave the tax dollars allocated for your child.

Even if some students are more expensive to educate, that doesn't negate the district's responsibility toward them. We don't do that with struggling learners. Instead we provide them with learning consultants, aides, and other help. Gifted students may not appear to be struggling, but they are. They are struggling to learn life skills such as working hard and overcoming obstacles. This can really hurt them later in life when they get to college or the work world and don't have these skills. Many fail greatly.

They are struggling learning social skills because they don't fit in and have no one that shares their interests or understands them. When they participate in class, they are ostracized for knowing all the answers. They are bullied. Some people even think it is funny to put "My kid beat up your honor roll student" bumper stickers on their cars. Would "My kid beat up your gay student" bumper stickers be allowed or thought funny? I don't consider either acceptable. These lack of social skills and constant harassment also affect them now and later in life. Many girls hide their giftedness just so they can fit in.

They are struggling to love learning. When you go to PD, do you like the courses that have new material or are 75% review? What if they moved at 1/4 the pace you like? What if this was everyday? Dropout rates for gifted learners are much higher than average. Gifted boys often act out in class because they are bored. We need to engage these learners.

Mike and Joshua I have time to answer/address a couple of concerns, but I will respond more later today when I am back home.

Mike if your child leaves your home school district their money follows them. Although not at the same rate as RCS perhaps (in my case it is far less because my district's FTE allotment is not the same as RCS) but tax dollars follow the kid.

Joshua, LOVE your summer enrichment suggestion! LOVE IT. Why did they say no?

If education were shoes, many would need standard shoes. Some would need orthotic shoes to help with a deficiency and correct their walking. Some would need extra large shoes that require more material so they aren't cramped and develop problems. If the school gave everyone the same shoes, that would be considered fair by some, but not by the kids who struggled walking in these shoes or whose feet were cramped. The better solution is to provide each student with the shoes he or she needs, even if orthotics or extra material costs more.

The solutions I listed in a previous post help teachers too. Is it easier to prepare a lesson for students all at similar ability levels or many lessons for students at different levels? Use ability grouping and cluster grouping to reduce the number of levels a teacher is preparing for. Are Teachers struggling to provide education for gifted learners? Put them in one classroom with a teacher who has training on working with gifted students.

I think we can come up with solutions that are wins for everyone. We just need to be open to them.

Chris, they haven't said no to the summer enrichment idea. I proposed it at the last school board meeting when they covered the current summer enrichment. However, their general policy at BOE meetings is to not respond to citizen statements, so I don't know what their reaction to summer enrichment for single subject or grade acceleration is.

The more community support for an idea, the more the board or administration is likely to look at implementing it. If parents aren't vocal, the board and administration often don't know anything needs to be changed or that parents would like a new program.

I did, I did! That's one (well actually two from my household) via absentee ballot! I was proud to cast my vote for Joanna because I believe I was a much more informed voter this time around.