I will have to apologize my response is broken up into 3 parts due to the character limit set by the Patch system. Please read all 3 parts before responding back.
Response Part 1: Let’s look at some simple facts. State law requires that students attend 1098 hours of instruction. So if the average Rochester teacher is being paid $69,584 per year, their hourly wage equals $63.37 ($69,584/1098); plus benefits. This by the way no one ever reports the value of benefits received. Now Mr. Flanagan, is suggesting we pay them more, let’s say $100,000; that would equal an hourly wage of $91.07. Both wages are based on the teacher working 9 months out of the year with approximately 20 days of paid vacation and holidays during the school year. Now let’s look at a scientist or engineer at a large company. Both would most likely be salary workers not hourly. By defining them as salary their pay is based on 12 months of work and 2080 hours (40 hours/week x 52 weeks/yr.) per year, making about $100,000 after 10-12 years on the job experience. Their salary calculated into an hourly wage would be $48.08 ($100,000/2080 hours), plus the value of their benefits. The scientist or engineer would receive 20 days of holidays and vacation for 12 months. Continued on part 2.

Response Part 2: For arguments sake why don't we say both parties benefits of are of equal or near equal value. Now just comparing the facts, teachers work 9 months of the year; the scientist/engineer works 12 months of the year. Teacher salary is based on 1098 hours/ year; scientist/engineer salary based on 2080 hours per year. Teacher hourly wage $63.37; scientist/engineer hourly wage $48.08. Comparing simple facts teachers are paid very well currently. Now some may some teacher’s work many hours at home that are not compensated. Last time I talked to my colleagues that are scientist and engineers they are working on average 45 hour weeks and are not being compensated for the extra 5 hours per week. So, we could easily say both groups work about the same amount of unpaid extra hours. Guess what, in business that is what we call a dedicated, hardworking employee. Continued on part 3.

Response Part 3: Now I agree with Mr. Flanagan's statement, “When you ratchet-up teacher salaries to $100,000-plus, market forces will direct more mid-career changers and you’ll attract more math and science college students into our educator prep programs,” he added. “We need to be moving all teachers to that salary level to continue getting the best and brightest people educating our students. What he is leaving out is that when we move to this pay structure, we should also be increasing the number of days and hours our students receive in instruction to put us in line with other industrialized nations; Korea 225 days, Japan 220 days. If we increase the number of days our pupils received instruction to 240 this would represent a 12 month school year, allowing for 4 weeks of holidays and vacations. Teacher’s $100,000 compensation would be right in line with the rest of the professional work force and our students would receive comparable education as other industrial nations; they would now be able to compete with students from other countries.

What was a beginning teacher's salary in Rochester Community Schools for 2010-11? How long would it take a teacher to reach the 2010-11 average salary?

This week I listened to NPR opinion piece that explained LeBron James' $17.5 million salary was underpaid in relation to the revenue he generates. While I understand the calculations, if one could calculate the revenue generated by members of public, the ability to function within society and to work in all aspects of industry and government as a result of getting a basic public school education, which allowed them to advance for further training or higher education, LeBron and I'd be next door neighbors! Why should it matter more for athletes than teachers? Not all results are so tangible Let's talk about the contributions of many mothers, or grandparents or fathers....It's all relative. Give teachers the recognition they deserve with better salaries that are competitive with many of the jobs out in industry. Students shouldn't have to wait till a school hires a mid-season changer in order to have an excellent math or science teacher, or music, geography or any other subject. If it takes higher salaries in part to help achieve that, so be it.

First year teachers are probably making 35k. No way should a k-12 teacher ever be making 100k a year. Some teachers that have been working for 15-20 years are probably topping off around 80k (with a Masters degree), and that's fine.

They chose the profession, and they knew what the salary was going in. They need to deal with it.

Ron, your 3 part answer is absurd. Your basing teachers working hours the time kids are in school. Last time i noticed teachers put in far more hours than the children are in school. Should i explain where the extra hours/days/weeks are put in or should i trust you have that information.
Nevertheless, The question is; "Do you think Michigan teachers should have higher salaries?"

I say YES. 100k after taxes, they'll take home 66k

You forgot to mention the benefit the teachers have that the poor Scientist & Engineers don't have and that is the NEA & the MEA . The teachers get to pay dues to
have these organizations bargain for them. The teachers also have benefits and retirement that any private sector worker would kill for.
Ever try to fire a teacher ? The two sides are FAR from equal. Ron was very generous to teachers in his comments.
Please,I am not against teachers - I have seen BOTH sides of this up close and a salary of $100,000.00 for teachers will require a lot more accountability than we are now getting.

What are these benefits we are talking about? The benefit of having 30+ children in their classroom for the day?
Most parents are super excited to get rid of their kids come September.
Imo, 100k is not enough...

I find it amazing how a simple question like, Should teachers make more, becomes "ever try to fire a teacher?"

Also, if teachers have it as good as Mr. Clark says they do. "Teachers have benefits that the private sector would kill for."
Wouldn't you think everyone would be killing each other to become a teacher. I just don't see it Steve...

Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." --Ronald Reagan, Labor Day Address at Liberty State Park, 1980

The insanity of the benefit agrument defies argument...Spend 1 day with my son a SE teacher of age 3-5 Autistic non-verbal students...tell the mother who for the first time in her little boy's life she heard him say MOM last week...after hours of work with the highly educated and talented Spartan teacher ..my son...who pays for his own Masters and will pay for his own PhD...the one who had too many certifications of ROchester Schools to consider because he would start at a higher payroll grade...een after so many Rochester SE teacher begged for his hire...Your loss....pay our teachers what they are worth instead of throwing money away on highly overpaid administrators

Teaching is an admirable profession, and one which is typically underpaid for the efforts put forth. However, knowing that going in, most teachers tend to be people who truly WANT to be teachers, not just make money. It's all fine-and-good to have a goal of raising the salary levels to better meet the qualifications and efforts put forth by teaching staff, but to simply say, "All teachers shall make [X amount of money] now" would open the door to all sorts of people who simply wish to make a very healthy salary, rather than WANT to be teachers. As a parent, I like the fact that my children are in the daily care of people who want to be with them too! We all know too many professionals, whom lured by 'the big bucks' became lawyers and doctors for instance, and are HORRIBLE at what they do. That's the last thing our suffering public educational system needs... more horrible teachers, who don't want to be there. And yes - there are MANY right now who fit that bill already. How about better accountability and yearly performance reviews for all NOW, and when it starts showing that there are shining examples of great teaching, give them raises.

This idea of Mr. Flanagan's poses many questions indeed... most importantly - just where is all this money is going to come from??

I am not a teacher but I have seen the work that they do. Most teachers work far more than an extra 5 hours per week. They are there early, stay long after the students have left and are working at home to prepare for the next day. They receive almost no funding for classroom "extras" which are often purchased out of their own pockets. I would like Ron to tell me the last time he knew of a scientist who spent his/her own money to purchase their lab supplies and research materials. I have seen teachers dig into their own pocket to pay for a child's lunch or for a field trip. I've seen them buy hats and gloves for students who had none. Also, there is not a single teacher in RCS that works 9 months. They return to the school to prepare their classrooms in August and most are closing up their classrooms a week or more after school gets out. 10 months is more accurate. I'm not sure that $100K is the right number, but I would argue that most teachers are earning their salary. Also, it takes many years of service to get to the $60K range. I'm pretty sure that if they didn't get the medical/dental benefits that they do it would be very difficult to entice anyone to be a teacher.

Some perspective:
"Physicians spend about 40,000 hours training and over $300,000 on their education, yet the amount of money they earn per hour is only a few dollars more than a high school teacher." - http://benbrownmd.wordpress.com/

Teachers demand to be treated like other professionals yet hide behind their union when it comes to accountability. It's nearly impossible to fire a pathetic teacher and they have virtually no liability exposure. Let's be honest, getting into a University education program is relatively easy when compared to professional schools, engineering, and accounting.
Try getting a job as a CPA, engineer, nurse, or physician and demanding $100,000 salary with full benefits and every holiday/weekend/summer off. Good teachers work hard and deserve compensation consistent with the time/money invested in their skill as well as market demand for their skill.

As a teacher, I can say that your account for how much work we do per year hourly is absurd. An average day has us working at least 8 hours with students and then another 4-5 hours in terms of grading, meeting with parents, counselors, child psychologists, etc., and planning. On top of this, many of us have after school extra-curricular duties such as coaching or advising clubs: all the activities parents and community members are angry about being cut because of budget deficits. I myself have advised these groups free of any payment so that students can have enriching experiences. Moreover, teacher are required by state law to continue their education and pay for it out of their own pocket. Many high ranking scientists will have supplement from their employer as they further their degree - and I speak from knowledge on this, as my sister is one of these. This means during the summer, in addition to planning for the next school year and going into the building on a regular basis for helping with hiring and other responsibilities, most of us are taking grad classes or attending continuing education conferences. We also do this during the school year.
Yes, I did pick this profession and did know that I was not paid as high as others, but when I did we were respected. We are not the cause of the economy. We have little to give back. And we do seek the same level of degree as other professions. Thus it would be nice to be treated as a professional at the very least.

Once teacher unions are dissolved, tenure is eliminated and prove is given that our kids do "learn" and excel.. than institute "pay for performance"...The latter will be what the economy and competition will generate...

"The key to getting more qualified math and science teachers into Michigan schools is simple"

A question for teachers in RCS and other knowledgeable persons: Is RCS facing a shortage of qualified math and science teachers in our schools? I was under the impression that we already had vast numbers of applicants for every position.

I was wondering the same thing Joshua. I was also wondering why on earth we are even debating such an arbitrary question when our schools are struggling to pay the teachers we have. Until we can fund our schools in a sustainable and predictable manner, districts will continue to be focused on the bottom line. Class sizes will continue to balloon and children will suffer.

I don't care if you pay a teacher 100k ( an arbitrary number really). My question would be what are the conditions? Does he/she have class sizes of 100? Will the teacher be rewarded only when every kid learns trigonometry and is accepted to UofM. What are the expectations? Will that teacher be involved in curriculum discussions or will he/she be given arbitrary benchmarks established by some none educator that has no vested interest in the community?

It is all really silly! Smaller class sizes, passionate and engaged teachers, individualized attention and variable curriculums which allow each child to reach his/her maximum potential. These are the variables that affect educational outcome. Teachers need to be respected and engaged in the discussion, not dictated to.

Pay rates are only part of the puzzle. And yet, discussions will continue to revolve around the numbers because that is all that matters in the 'private' sector. In the end, children do not have a price tag on them and are not sold on the free market. To treat them as such is unfair at best!

Mitt Romney had the answer....hire the cream of the crop from teaching universities. Most teachers are drawn from the middle to low end of the graduates compared to European or Asian countries. Teachers also need to reflect their professionalism. They should return to the days when teachers projected an image of business. They also need to refrain from their attempts to influence their students politically & stick to the set curriculum. Finally, Teachers need to reflect their excitement, wonder of learning & have a vocabulary that reflects the diversity of their knowledge & integrate this into their curriculum.

I have worked for RCS in a support capacity for over 18 years and know first hand how tirelessly teachers work. Working hard to motivate, promote critical thinking, encourage, and council when needed. Parents and students have changed drastically during my tenure. Many parents don't support their children's education by teaching them responsibility, blaming the teacher for their child's poor progress. In turn many children don't fully accept their responsibilities as a student, they feel it's their right to opt out if they don't feel like working. The classroom teacher not only teaches a curriculum, but also teaches integrity, honesty, forgiveness, empathy, self discipline, and a good work ethic because many children don't learn it anywhere else.

In response to the person above who said "Kindergarten teachers, and the talents to be a good kindergarten teacher are just not that scarce" has obviously not been in a kindergarten classroom lately. Some fail to acknowledge how important the first years in school are in how a child feels about him/herself as a life long learner. A good kindergarten teacher prepares them for the rest of their academic career! Yes, kindergarten has an age appropriate, challenging curriculum including math, science, and language arts.

We should strive to attract the brightest and best men and women who answer the calling for the huge responsibility of shaping our future and compensate them with a salary that reflects that responsibility.

Betty, did you mean "compliment"?
Middle and high school teachers do teach more than 100 kids each day. That can be a challenge, but they often are teaching the same thing to 5 different classes. This means just one lesson plan, and a cakewalk in terms of preparation. Also, all types of professionals pay for their own supplies and education. Carpenters and tradesmen frequently buy their own tools and licensing, even when they are W-2 employees. And the degrees "earned" by teachers are many times acquired solely because they mean a bump in pay. They often come from third-rate or online schools- degree mills.

The problem with this arguement is that teaching cannot be equally compared to scientists, engineers, lawyers, or LeBron. All those professions are competitively driven. People choose those careers and spend money on becoming educated at a very high level because they know if they work harder than everyone else they will make more money. Teachers have no monetary incentive to excel. It is actually just the opposite. The better teachers have more work and burdens heaped upon them. Teachers cannot even compete for jobs in other districts. It does not matter how good you are, once you leave your district you start at the base salary. So what drives good teachers? Pride and the love of the kids.

Another misrepresentation is the unions role in protecting bad teachers. I have been involved in grievances in Rochester for years and I have never once seen the union protect a teacher that needed to be disciplined or let go. It is actually the opposite in my profession. Poor teachers constantly feel pressure from their peers to do the right thing. Their performance affects our kids.

The union is a necessary presence to protect us if we need it. Most parents are wonderful and supportive but there are those whose children can do no wrong and when those parents have a strong voice in the community I need to have a system in place to protect my job. Remember, if I lose my job I take a 65% pay cut to start over when I am at the top of the scale.

Insurance is another area that is no longer a good arguement against us. For years teachers had premium insurance and would fight for that over raises in salary. Now our insurance is comparable to many other professions and is getting worse with every new contract.

How about this? I will never complain about my salary or benefits or even ask for the respect of the public if Governor Snyder and the rest of the voting public stop trying to take what I have.

Don't forget all the school loans that are paid as soon as a teacher gets tenure.. And all the many loans after tenure that are paid as well for ongoing education and hot tubs and car or house payoffs that come from the over expensing of these so called student loans, free cell phones in my district for tenured teachers. In the private sector if you perform poorly at your job you lose it, in the teaching world of Michigan it does not matter good teacher, bad teacher you deserve a pay raise. Until our schools change vote no for every millage. Now it looks like Holder is trying to outlaw homeschooling. Don't you just love our elected and appointed politicians, has anyone asked what's best for our children instead of what's in it for ME.

Brian, if I could make any sense of what your first two sentences were trying to say I would attempt a comment.