Your right! Michigan is going to pot! The hub of welfare and the free cheese. Welfare for political freinds in high and low places; that is what it is about! Politics is all about getting elected and getting a vote; then blaming someone other than the real culprits. Say one thing and do another; Wallstreet is Politics, and Politics is Wallstreet. Keep the masses fighting with each other, and distract them from the real problem. There is no such thing as innocent in any group. When you think so; you are biased... In science, they call it selective perception! There was one Great Man..
"Let us never negotiate out of fear. But let us never fear to negotiate."
"Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country"
"For only when our arms are sufficient beyond doubt can we be certain beyond doubt that they will never be employed."
"All this will not be finished in the first 100 days. Nor will it be finished in the first 1,000 days, nor in the life of this Administration, nor even perhaps in our lifetime on this planet. But let us begin."
"...let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God's work must truly be our own." John F Kennedy

Those bad rich people need to pay for all the fruits of their labor and hard work and hand it over; why work when the GOV will pay you? Lol..

You go Tom..... I love you and your no BS approach... It is all about accountability, in every aspect of life! As long as people don't have to work; and tax payers pay you not to work, why would you work? That is of course if you have no ambition or self respect? If I cannot make it in life on my own, with the gifts God hs given me of two hands and a brain; that is my fault. Mr. Snyder is actually very fair to both sides! He is not extreem in any manner; it is called practical and responsible! Something more people should be acquainted with; rather than spendind???? Do you honestly thing Master Card is doing poorly because all those people plan to pay it back? No, they will bail when they max it out; and so will BIG GOV. That is the big MOTHER of all BUBBLES!

Thomas, please.

In each of Michigan’s 83 counties, the County Apportionment Commission - consisting of the county cleark, county treasurer, county prosecutor, and the heads of the county Republican and Democratic parties - draws the county commission districts every 10 years.

Until now; this new law changes Oakland County ONLY.

Why are Democrats incensed? Why aren't discussions focused around going from 25 to 21 commissioners? Well, primarily because the law is targeted at denying a victory at the polls won by Democrats, and instead of an independent commission, enpowers the 15 sitting GOP Commissioners to redraw their own seats!

So, bring the "discussions", but first acknowledge that the bill signed by Snyder imposes a revision of the Oakland County charter without a vote of the citizens of Oakland County and is illegal, and second, accept the plan already approved by the Michigan Court of Appeals.

And should we decide to change the County charter, place the issue on the ballot; don't jam it down the throats of the citizens of Oakland County and claim "it's for your own good".

Your whine that "Instead of serving the voters, our commissioners are serving their parties." provides cover for GOP tyranny and suggests Democrats should ignore the adherence to the rule of law and a sense of fairness when if fact it is their duty to defend both.

If you want a discussion, why do you allow the GOP a free hand to create mayhem instead of an atmosphere for dialogue?

Daryl, I was unaware an apportionment commission existed for redrawing districts. Before the election that brought Democrats to Oakland’s prosecutor and treasurer offices, I don't remember any of the candidates discussing the importance of their office to apportionment or how they'd bring impartiality to redistricting.

In that same election, however, voters elected a majority Republican commission. I don't think it's intellectually honest to believe that a partially-elected body is better equipped for redistricting than a fully-elected board of commissioners. But here we are, you, me, and uncounted others debating the blatant partisanship of what happened rather than what I believe should be the more important issues, legal or not, of how it affects representation.

In addition to the questions I raised earlier, fewer districts means larger districts, and larger districts increase campaign expenses. Is that a good thing? I don't think so. Perhaps we should be beating Republicans up for intentionally raising the barrier to entry for citizens interested in serving as commissioners and reducing our choices.

It is not my mission to provide cover for Republicans or Democrats. Instead it is my intent to look past divisive partisanship and consider what is or isn't good public policy.

If voters are distracted by partisanship, how can we expect our elected officials to act otherwise?

Tom, most people were "unaware an apportionment commission existed for redrawing districts".

However, it does exist - or at least did - for all 83 counties in Michigan.

You said, "I don't think it's intellectually honest to believe that a partially-elected body is better equipped for redistricting than a fully-elected board of commissioners."

On the contrary, consider this: the people involved in the apportionment commission are not drawing their own districts! This is key to the issue of fair redistricting!

"It is not my mission to provide cover for Republicans or Democrats. Instead it is my intent to look past divisive partisanship and consider what is or isn't good public policy."

And I apologize for interpreting your motives otherwise.

However, there are more public policy issues here. Besides the number of districts, there is the changing of the method of redistricting in Oakland County.

I for one reject that being decided outside of the county, retroactively, without discussion nor vote of the county.

The GOP introduced this mayhem. Their actions should be castigated. It is not merely a small tit-for-tat political issue. Your argument read as a blanket condemnation of both parties; by its silence it seemed to give cover to the GOP's role in this conflict.

We can discuss a change in districts - let it be studied, debated, and costs examined, but let's have that debate separate from determining the electoral map in Oakland County for 2012.

"The people involved in the apportionment commission are not drawing their own districts! This is key to the issue of fair redistricting!"

It would be, except the commission is apparently partisan as well, which is what the fight is over.

If there really should be a formula based on demographics and contiguity, it seems a computer program should be able to redistrict impartially. Even if not accepted, it should be the one whomever's in-charge should start with, and argue why their adjustments are improvements and not favors to their party.

Tom, your response to my statement "The people involved in the apportionment commission are not drawing their own districts! This is key to the issue of fair redistricting!" was that "It would be, except the commission is apparently partisan as well, which is what the fight is over."

Two points:

1) The fight is over whether the GOP in Lansing should have the power to RETROACTIVELY change the way Oakland County, and only Oakland County, manages redistricting - AFTER the redistricting was done!

2) In Michigan, all counties (except Oakland) use 3 COUNTY WIDE ELECTED officials on an apportionment commission to handle redistricting. In all of those counties, none of the sitting county commissioners get to draw their own district lines! None! What the GOP has imposed is an abomination where it transfers control from the OC apportionment commission to the OC county commissioners themselves.

The uproar is about the GOP in Lansing changing the rules after the fact in a way that is highly controversial, designed for their own political advantage, while standing behind the fig leaf lie that this new change was prompted by an interest in saving money!

You may not have a problem with that lie being held up as the reason, but many people do.

Disregarding the underlying motivation of the GOP would be dishonest, intellectually and in every way else. After all, tyranny, the arbitrary or unrestrained exercise of power, is something Americans resist, not ignore.

Darryl, yours is the best synopsis of the issues I've read. Thanks.

Your point about the apportionment commission including county-wide, and not just district-wide folks makes sense--though I'm still not thrilled with the county party chairs.

What I like best about your points is how much clearer they are when made without partisan nonsense.

Thanks for the compliment, Thomas.

Unfortunately, partisanship is at the core of this issue. It was OC Commissioner Potts who filed suit in July challenging the Apportionment Commission's proposed redistricting plan, primarilly since it would pit him against fellow Republican incumbent Shelley Goodman Taub for re-election next year. It appears he thought he'd lose. He's pressing on to the Supreme Court since the Michigan Court of Appeals has already upheld the proposed boundaries. After the GOP lost in court, it launched its end-run of both the court and the voters. The "saving money" part was a ruse.

In addition, please note that the Michigan Constitution provides for two classes of laws: those that impact the entire state, and those that impact only one county.

Those that are written in a fashion that impact "one county only" require a two-thirds majority in both houses as well as a vote of the citizens in the county. The GOP, assuming itself all powerful and above the law, just ignored the constitution and rammed through the law.

I hope you can now join those in opposition to this unconstitutional law, at least in sentiment if not in your posts. Democrats' and others' exhortations to overturn the law and for a return of normal order are fully justified. The argument is not a mere squabble between two political parties, but rather a matter of constitutionality, election integrity, fairness, and truthfulness.

Have a great day, and Happy Holidays!

Tim, calm down. ACORN doesn't exist any more. Was there a problem with the logic or facts of my post you would like to address? Do you have any information you would like to interject into this discussion?

'Long-term effects of money printing explained' By Michael Lombardi
http://www.commodityonline.com/news/long-term-effects-of-money-printing-explained-44512-3-1.html

Two trillion dollars: that’s how much the Fed has increased its balance sheet by buying securities. And where did the two trillion dollars come from? It was created. My final question for you, dear reader: how can you create two trillion dollars, on top of the five trillion the Obama administration has expanded its debt, and have rapid inflation not become a problem?

Here is the simple formula: Rising government debt plus lots of money printing = rapid inflation, which = higher interest rates

Tim, interesting information, but how does it relate to the redistricting controversy?

Tim,

That was so funny, however a very sad ending. If we do not change course now, we will never recover as a Nation.

We are in serious trouble as a Nation, State and City because we cannot get the politicians to do the right things. All you have to do is read the paper today about the City of Detroit and the serious trouble they are in; we are on the exact same path, but our day of reckoning is farther out.

People stand up and want fiscal responsibility and they are called "Radical." I suggest the people that are continuing the unsustainable path are the radical ones. However, no one wants to cut spending and let's just take shots at the people trying to bring things under control.

How long can we continue on this path?

Marty,

I only responded to Tim's video and commented on it, I also understand I did deviate from the real topic of these posts, but felt compelled to comment on our fiscal situation.

I call this redistricting issue just plain politics, not real useful and whoever is in control gets to play the game. This has been going on for years whether it is Democrats or Republicans in control. Politics a waste of time and money, we need to get back on track financially regardless of your affiliation with a particular party or we will no longer be a viable nation. That is the point I was trying to make.

Just when you think you've heard it all, our illustrious Congress quietly comes
up with a new zinger to put their hands in your pockets, and pick them while you aren't watching. Isn't this just wonderful ? I was standing in line at the checkout counter at Wal Mart and as I looked at the line behind me, I saw a couple of people talking about what looked like identical new cell phones, bragging about the fact that their phones were free and so was the airtime.
recipients are now eligible to receive what he described as (1) a FREE new cell
phone, and (2) approximately 250 FREE minutes of air time every month.' SafeLink Wireless is a government supported program that provides a free cell
phone and airtime each month for income-eligible customers. In other words, your tax dollars are being distributed to a wireless phone provider to provide welfare recipients with free cell phones and airtime. We are $14 Trillion in debt, Congress is balking at continuing unemployment payments to those who want to work, and Congress is increasing the dole-out to dead beats.The old concept of getting ahead through hard work has flown out the window. It has been replaced by Obama's and Congress' idea of Hope and Change. "Why should I work for it, when I can get it for free?"
https://www.safelinkwireless.com/EnrollmentPublic/Home.aspx
I work every day, pay for my Own Cell Phone and buy My Own minutes.
Doesn't this just burn you up ?

Good video though!

Bensick, you've done about as much damage to our economy by shopping at The Peoples' Republic of Walmart as some non-descript, anonymous, imaginary person has done by getting a cell phone for free.

Laugh less. Live better. :-)

I dont shop at Walmart; please explain what is so bad about it! Not even sure what is so inteligent about non-descript, anonamous, imaginary person reference?

It all about buying votes, at the top of Wallstreet, or enableing the welfare society. Free Cheese is Free Cheese! While we are fighting and using us in this game of more Debt and Welfare to get rich. Fawkes is a oxymoron; he hates government by his inuendo of a name he hides behind; but will take the government money from it; AKA Tax Payer Money? I don't see the logic of being right, or even rightous; just self rightous! Our Country has lost it's way; and the Constitution is the PREAMBLE; a few pages that is very clear to understand. aparently you all are much smarter than the founding fathers; too bad you were not there to consult them?

Thanks; I feel alone out here! You would be supprised; my wife came from another Country; went throught the Detroit pubilc school system, and is working on finishing up her 3rd Masters Dergree; Finance, Accounting, MBA, and multiple languages. Worked for Large CEO's and he views, as well many other ethnic groups are more Conservative and self-reliant that the Americans. Nobody ever said to her, "Come here you poor little disinfranchised minority, you are too stupid, we need to help you."
She did everything the right way, and pulled her self up by her own boot straps the hard way, working 3 jobs, 2 jobs since age 17 and helped her family move out of Detroit! I know the people around the world are laughing at us; and can you blame them? We are a joke!!!