I am a OPC user and support OPC 110%. What you people have to realize or admit (if you already realize it) is that the tax payers money only keeps the utilities paid. The rest of the money for OPC comes from donations and fees of supporters like myself so don't act like Rochester's $106000 millage is what keeps OPC running.

Why don't you write about the RARA director receiving 11% raise and a bridge work worth $1 million as fiscally irresponsible. State the facts as they are or shut up

Laurie I could not agree more on the problems with looking at only the bottom line. The over all health of an organization is in the details, in the body of the budget. It amazed me that in the past everyone rubber stamped the budgets. It speaks to the lack of leadership and blindly trusting that everything is running okay. In these tough economic times I can bet that there are issues facing the OPC that need to be addressed. Keep speaking out as an alternative view from Rochester Hills.

Ghost writers. I loled.

http://www.opcseniorcenter.org/Menu/03_Newsletters/OPC_Newsletter/2012_02_NL.pdf: "February, being the month of the heart "Valentine Day" we want to publish one liners or more about how you feel about OPC in your life and what it means to you.

We have ghost writers if you need help putting your thoughts into words.

Call for a ghost writer at 248-608-0276 or send your one liners or story to OPC-Heart, 650 Letica Drive Rochester MI 48307."

They had ghost writers. Who knew?

Daryl... Still confused over this one...help. Did not all three cities vote yes one or two years ago for this director's benefit packages. Let's leave Mary name out of this. Is not the director of OPC just following the recommendations of her board and all three cities? All I see hear that is new business is a one percent pay raise. Is it not true that the full time at OPC have not gotten a raise in three years. Why do we not want to reward those for good service to our community. I have heard that some of the pay increases are 15 cents an hour. Whats all the fuss? I look up their operating budget on line and the OPC is asking for less in 2012 than 2011...Daryl help someone should do a reality check on this issue...know one is benefiting from all this posturing.

I suppose you mean the little contribution from Rochester Millage will bankrupt Rochester? Rochester Council wasn't worried about bankrupting the city when they spend who knows how much on the bridge and giving RARA director an 11% pay increase. If Rochester is so worried about getting bankrupt then they need to get out of the tri-community agreement, OPC doen't need them or want them.

Since you never made it up the education ladder, I did the math for you:
Rochester Hills millage contribution to OPC's yearly budget is 24.5%
Oakland Township millage contribution to OPC's yearly budget is 8.4%
Rochester millage contribution to OPC's budget is 4%
and Rochester wants bigger representation in OPC's board!!!
They are the biggest joke in the community.

Terry...my mom likes to keep things simple too that's why I guss she spelled my name with one "t"...LOL just thought I would share some background first, spent 9 years on the Rochester Hills City council 2 years as council president. 1988-1997 I have approved or disapproved 9 municipal budgets. I remember one year I voted no because RH was infatic that we spend over $100,000 every year housing a turtle in a house on Avon rd. long story. OPC...I just spent the last two hours reading all their 2011 minutes...wow what we're they thinking what a lot to ask for in this current political climate...now everything is making sense. I can see why those like Jeffrey Cuthbertson so up set, and so upset with RH and OT...it's amazing there was not more resent to the OPC proposals in those two towns. $8,400 health care buyouts...? bad trimming to be asking for those kind of ideas. But we like OPC and let's hope they and the city of Rochester can work thur this. Terry thanks for your response. Terry do you also get involved in Rochester Hills "spending"...couple quick examples: HR department runs $200.000 over budget every year compared to the private sector. Building department runs about $400.000 over budget every year to the revenue it takes in...the department ran way in the "black" when I left. Assessing department we do in house; Rochester uses the county, if we used the county service too we could save over $700.000 per year. Just to name a few; RH makes OPC look like fiscal saints.

The following comes from Director Miller's comments on the front page of the January 2012 OPC newsletter: "LOOKING BACK ON 2011: We were cut in funding by over a $100,000 again in 2011, same as 2010. However, we are able, through staff endeavors, to keep all programs and services intact, plus, added more programs and service more people than in the past. Thanks also in part to the volunteers. We have
raised more funds and have had great sponsors this past year. I hope you let them know how much they are appreciated. We have cut corners on supplies and the maintenance department has taken over more of the building cleaning. The nutrition department has taken day old produce from our local area business’s and cycled it into our daily menu, that has kept the cost down. Every department has been very cost conscience(sic)."

I wonder how much fresh produce and supplies you get for $25,200 (three folks who qualify for the $8,400 payment in lieu of benefits, one of which is Director Miller).

For those that say all that matters is the bottom line and any attention to what happens in between the lines is micromanagment...my only response is "really?"

OPC Newsletter link in case I'm called a liar for that quote also: http://www.opcseniorcenter.org/Menu/03_Newsletters/OPC_Newsletter/2012_01_NL.pdf

Laurie...thanks as you get to know me more I never "draw a line in the sand" on city council I was always open to review all the information first. I'm sure that's why I was honored by my peers... and they elected me twice to be their president. OPC is a great institution in our community and run by a great director, that I have known for years. This was handled poorly looks to me like a lot of headiline grabbing... I hope the they work it out. The timing was bad to ask for increases. Personally I strongly feel those who work hard deserve a raise, deserve a contribution from their employer for health care...don't support buyouts...and deserve some one to one match for retirement...whether it's the public or the private sector. P.S. when both sides reach a decision in "savings to the taxpayer" are they going to roll back the millage rate someone should do the math...what is this going to save us $10 bucks a house per year... WOW!

I suppose bikson's texting while the director is talking about OPC's budget and spending and your yelling at the OPC board is respectful. Rochester council has been disrespectful to OPC board and director. I guess its OK when you and them do it, but you don't like it when its done to you. Too bad!

Well Sam, I see you posted at 5:51pm and still angry--I didn't yell, if there was a video or tape of the meeting, you could verify that-but over Ms. Fogler and the others very loud voices all at the same time because they didn't like what they heard, and the few hecklers in the back...Want to talk about respect? Want to talk about the Director calling a City Council and Mayor liars? The very people that pay her? The Rochester City Council has been respectful--they didn't throw the Director out and they didn't even interrupt her. They allowed her daughter, an elected Council Member to have her say---I think Ms. Russell is sitting on the wrong Council. The Director should have apologized, still hasn't, and any other employer would have fired her, immediate.
I think the Board is upset because for the first time they are questioned as a Board about operations and they can't just pass the buck--no pun intended.

Good one Victor. You should do Second City.

Heard from multiple people that Mike Webber was an arrogant jerk to Stuart. Really uncalled for. Especially since Stuart has been on his death bed for the entire week (missed both our budget meetings) and dragged himself out to attend this particular meeting Can't wait to get the sister city meetings restarted. This whole exercise brought a much larger issue to light. The "establishment" in greater Rochester does not care for us rabble rousers. I'm a firm believer in karma biting you in the ass when you're an arrogant jerk to your supposed friends and colleagues. Really makes me want to go out of my way to collaborate with our sister cities. Someone needs to fix this. I think you know who you are. It has gotten out of hand.

I don't see anyone in the rochester council objecting to RARA getting a new building and a whopping 11% pay increase.

Maybe rochester needs to get off the train since they don't like the way they are treated (cuthbertson's words during a rochester city council meeting)

Sam, you are the only one out there making stupid remarks-and if you are not interested in what I do at the OPC, why are you trying to find out ? Creepy.
Better read your blogs Sam--your words, not mine---
When you state someone thinks the taxpayers are stupid, in English Sam, that means that party is saying they are stupid and that is exactly what you wrote---read it yourself-your words--I think there are bigger problems out there with the OPC and the angrier you get the more I think there's a lot more to all the huffing and puffing you and a few others are doing---it only serves to prompt that many more questions.

Give it up already Sam. Everything you have tried to slam me with has not worked
because facts and truth come out. And your latest post, trying to rectify your post before that one is absurd. RHS is a fine school. Your posts have been about nothing more than name calling -no solutions no compromise. It appears you are trying to divert the attention from the OPC problem(s) at hand. Doesn't work.
So throw in another post about me, name call some more and have a good day-you are not worth my time--and from what I have heard perhaps I need to be more cautious in my where about's where you are concerned.

Thanks for posting Mike Webber's response.
I find it intriguing how the Rochester Hills finance director looks at the numbers. SO, if you increase a budget by a particular amount and that is not accepted that year and then accept it the next year, it is no longer a new expense or increase, because it was proposed the year before. God help us in Rochester Hills. This is the kind of manipulation we do not need and the type the current city administration and council members seem to condone and encourage. Can't wait to see what they finagle when it comes to proposing new millages later this year.

Your reference to the new pension plan without a "formal budget amendment" for re-ratification is exactly what those new numbers look like to me. I hope they understand that by exposing those numbers they are in possible violation to the ILA. It is my understanding that the OPC board did not come to the City of Rochester for an formal budget amendment. You want to discuss your numbers by all means let's discuss. I was at the meeting and Mr. Webber did say he sent his info in an e-mail that same day. I am beginning to see many similarities between the old DDA budget and the OPC budget. Time to start turning over rocks.

Well Sam, wrong again---I have said over and over that I support the OPC at this is on
cable-and I also said it at the the OPC meeting-so there you go again, spreading a lie and twisting the information. I do support seniors as well, I have openly admitted to by age, 60 years and 6 months, my husband will be 72 in another week-so, again, you are not factual and just stirring a pot--next, not once did I say anything about turning the OPC into a community center--again Sam, a lie and twisting facts--what I have spoken about is the inequities in votes, the ILO, and the budget items of the increased benefits and pay in comparison with others in govt. and the private sector-and I have talked a lot about leadership. I also defined "Director", and her need to be replaced with someone who is professional and also does not stir the pot and twist information.
I spoke of compromise and resolution and the taxes that pays for everything.
You have done nothing but throw a temper tantrum. Go ahead, stomp your feet some more and do some more name calling if it makes you feel better-because to the rest of people reading this, you come off looking like a bully, a pot stirrer with no solutions and a liar for the purpose of avoiding the real facts.

Pat, you say you are a supporter, but myself and other OPC users don't see you there. Just saying you are a supporter doesn't make you so and admidtting or accepting your age doesn't make you a supporter of seniors either. Sorry.
You and rochester council want to change the entire political system because of personal and political agenda. I'm explaining it again, rochester and oakland have 2 bodies on the board because of their lesser population and contribution. End of story. Rochester is the one bullying, doesn't anyone in rochester council know anything about our political system. Or worse, maybe they think the citizens are so stupid to believe them?
You are the one twisting things by saying that the taxes pay for everything at OPC. That is not true. The real OPC users like myself pay for the programs and activitries through fees. The millage pays for building operations, meals on wheels, transportation and things like that.
OPC supporters have asked questions at the rochester council and I have asked questions here, but no one has even tried to address them. Things like why did bickson reject budget proposals from the board without even taking it to the rochester council for vote? You see I do offer opinions and ask legitimate questions, but the politicians that refuse to answer our questions and are the ones to look out for. They are the ones that are in the wrong.

Sam, why don't you give me your number-next time I go to the OPC I will call you in advance and you can video tape me? At the OPC, I paid a fee and go through a training session before I was allowed to use the exercise equipment and then pd for useage-I also pay for the track use. I guess I should be flattered that you are "investigating" my usage of the services at the OPC---let me know when you and your "friends" break into the private client files for names, dates and more information-or do you want me to save you time and give you the dates I paid and what for? I work full time, so I don't hang out there during the day. Why don't we post my photo on the wall and then any time someone sees me, they can call you. You know, like, Find Waldo? Or find Kim Russell? (she wasn't at the last Council Mtg.-where there was information on the Charter violation) when she advocated for a raise for her mom at taxpayers expense--And really Sam, calling other taxpayers stupid--that is so disrespectful-just like the Director calling an entire City Council "liars". See you March 8- Can't wait, looking forward to nice robust exchange!

Pat, first and foremost, I didn't say the taxpayers are stupid. either you can't comprehend what you are reading or you are twisting ther facts like you always do. I said that rochester council thinks that the taxpayers are stupid and you twist that around like you always do.

Also, thanks for clearing things up about your coming to OPC and supporting OPC. I know that I was right and contrary to what you claim, you do not use OPC nor do you support OPC. If you were an OPC user then you'd know that the track is free for everyone to use and would make false claims (as always) that you pay to use the track and therefore you support OPC. Thanks for clearing things up for
everyone and don't get mad at me for calling it like it is.

Sam, you can donate for the use of the track, $1.00, $3.00 or whatever...the box has always been there unless it has been moved. And I always donated. Funny, you don't dispute the fees for the training session to the fee when you use the equipment now do you? You are sounding pretty creepy to me-if you want to know all about me, hire an investigator--if you access my information at the OPC-that could result in a problem for you and your friends--Council isn't stupid either-you spend a lot of time accusing people of being stupid -got anything else? And you are calling it incorrect.
Just because you don't sign up for everything does not mean you don't support the OPC-anyone can "pay as they go", send contributions in memory of persons, and donate in goods--i have done all of that and continue to do so besides advocate for people to use services at the OPC, -so Sam, quit trying to stir the pot and call me liar--support to you means what? What Sam? Define support? How do you support the OPC Sam? Work there?

Pat, once again you are twisting the words I posted in black on white. I didn't say the tax payers were stupid and I didn't say rochester council is stupid. You did. Either you can't make sense of what you are reading or you just can't write without twisting and distorting the fact. And by the way, I'm not the least interested in what you do at OPC or anywhere else, only interested in correcting the misinformation put out by you and others like you. The name calling, finger pointing, disrespecting and personal attacks all started by you and the rochester council. When it stops, myself and others like me will stop as well.

Pat, your comments once again shows that you can't understand english. You are right, I said it in plain english but unfortunately for you, you had to twist it around and turn it into propaganda.. Only a twisted mind would do that. So sad. I wrote what I meant and meant what I wrote. Saying that rochester council thinks the taxpayers are stupid doesn't mean Ithat I said the taxpayers are stupid. Stop the non sense talk. All the huffing and puffing is coming from you and the like. Your claims and demands have no base and that is why you and others have resorted to this sort of rhetoric. Pathetic.

You said it again Sam, that the Rochester City Council thinks the taxpayers are stupid-
you just don't get it--The Rochester City Council has NEVER thought the taxpayers are stupid--maybe the OPC or the Board has because they don't want anyone to question how and where they spend the money, but our Council has respect for the taxpayers hard earned dollars. They respect what it took to earn that money in these economic times. And they just don't spend it "on themselves" just because it is there like the OPC thinks it should be spent. Got an idea, why doesn't the OPC hire back the people they "let go" a year or so ago because they said they couldn't afford them" ? If there's "extra money they want to spend in payroll and benefits-thats the way to go! Hire them back--the work is still there and so is the need. How do you like that for a solution? You know something, you are not interested in compromise or solution, you will only be happy if the Director gets her take in this budget.
She should be rested from her 13 trip to South Africa....I understand she flew in today.

PAt, I see as usual you are full of demands and questions. I have ideas too. Why don't you stop being a back set driver and leave the OPC management to Marye Miller and her straff? Why rochester council never addresses any of the concerns of those who speak at the meetings (except for when someone makes comments in favor of the council of course)? Why don't you and Daryl (and maybe a few others) stop moaning and complaining that you pay $32.00 a year so that the homebound seniors can have transportation and hot meal?
A bunch selfish and egotistical people who are always concerned about themselves. If you don't like the fees and hours at OPC, then join whatever facility that suits your needs. End of story.

Well Sam, still angry I see--it's about more than money -its about allocation, core mission, fairness, equality, transparency. You never address the issues.
Just name call--again, read one of my solutions...hire back the people the Director let go because OPC didn't have the money to afford them...that would be the reasonable thing to do. Looks like 1. you don't address the issues, 2. you listen to gossip, 3. you name call and don't offer any solutions and 4. you continue to bully and want to suppress Amendment rights--So, you are in favor of giving the Director a whopping increase-good for you---I am not. And this has nothing to do with cutting services.
I didn't let go of drivers, the Director did.

Pat, I get more truth out a spam email than I get out your posts. Same BS, different day. you keep demanding answers from your twisted lies. You are not getting any just like you don't answer anyone's questions, Just me me me as usual. By the way I don't know what you are talking about Marye Miller letting drivers go. Wake up and come to the real world. Don't put words in my mouth Pat. i never said OPC is or was mis-managed. That's just one of the lies you and rochester council is trying to make the tax payers believe. What about the hours of operation at RARA or the Library. I want those hours changed, I want their budget analyzed, I want the $11000 raise for the RARA director taken away.....and many more....Get the picture? You and rochester council are picking OPC apart becuase of hidden agenda and personal gain and mad and upset because no one is listening to your crap. You keep making up reasons why rochester has to have more representation on the OPC board, but the truth is that rochester is not entitled to more representation because they have less contribution and smaller residency, and therefore get less representation. That's the fact, regardless of what lame excuses you and the rochester city makes and it has nothing to do with Marye Miller or the Rochester Hills Mayor. It has to do with how the political system is set up, and you would have known that if you had finished high school.

Sam- "if you had finished high school"--your words.....IF I HAD FINISHED HIGH SCHOOL.....
Well Sam, surprise..I did finish and graduated from Rochester HIgh School at the age of 17- with well above average grades, and I mean well above.
So, now that we put that to rest, I guess from the rest of your post, I would know then, uh? Because I did graduate from high school, right?

Pat, unfortunately for you it doesn't mean that you'd know. Judging by your posts here, you don't, which doesn't say much for Rochester H.S.. Or perhaps you do know, but you think others don't and would believe the rhetoric that you post here.

Pat, you are the one writing obsurd posts here. Stop your nonsense posts, trying to pass crap as legitimate political concern is insult to me and everyone else, including the smart RHS graduates. I'm not tarnishing RHS, you are. I bet they all know better to think your political demands are wrong. As long as you write garbage here, I'll be here to correct you. You, Rochester Hills Wannabe Council member Laurie Puscas and rochester council's demands and foot stumping has no basis and we know it. It is obvious that you, rochester council and Laurie Puscas have personal and political gains for doing this.......

It sounds like you are saying OPC should be a community center and not a senior activity center?

Go away troll. Identify yourself and people will engage you. Hiding in the shadows and calling people liars, losers and nerds gets you the sound of crickets. Nerds. Who says that anymore. Are you sure you're not my 9 year old?

First of all, the system let me sign up for patch with just my first name. Again you are asking for things you have no business asking for. I gave my first name only and that's enough for the system and doesn't matter what you think. Secondly, I'm not here so that I can have my friends tell me how great I am and how well of a job I'm doing. I don't care if you or others reply to my posts or not. I'm here to correct the misinformation you, daldin and others with hidden agendas post here. You will not make OPC into a community center, ever.
By the way, at least Rochester Hills is fixing the bridge, you just wasted our tax money on the Main street bridge.

Most of us post our names because we are responsible and don't hide behind someones' skirts-in other words-we aren't intimidated or afraid that our friend, neighbor or whoever may ask us questions or not support us. See Sam, a lot of this has to do with two things-the truth and facts, which OPC et all doesn't want to discuss and the second is support--when people see the truth/facts well, the support may not be there----so, to keep the support, twist the numbers, don't discuss the issues, call public officials and councils liars, pretend you didn't get information you did get, and then chastise a transparent city that looks at budgets--plan backfired.
So, it is Tues at 9:30pm and you are still angry...and the Council meeting sure had some interesting comments and the OPC wasn't even on the agenda........
So Sam, what's your plan? Give them what they want? Just hand it over?
Is that what you will do when RH tells you they can't afford roads and police?
Just give them what they want? Just hand it over? How do you think Rochester Hills got in the mess they are with their own budget? It was one line at a time.......

Sam, it just hit me, you don't want to use you full name or real name because you don't want your neighbors and friends to know what you are saying and supporting
so, you let the system take the responsibility for posting first name only so you can stay safe from criticism on the home front--hadn't really thought about that until you started saying who you are is no ones business...and the system allows you etc. etc. You're afraid.

Patricia you have no idea about politics, nor do you have any idea about what OPC does and what they provide for the seniors in the three communities. You, Ben , nor Daldin,have ever responded or even tried to clarify or respond to any questions the seniors have asked because you think the seniors should never dare to question you. We should just give you whatever you think you want (just as more seats on the governing board for rochester). I soppuse if you come up short of votes for a candidate, you are going to demand that the candidate should take the office anyway, just becuase you want it that way. Do you or the others realize how ridiculous that sounds? That's pretty sad coming from so called polititions and elected officials.

8:00 pm Feb. 17 and I see you are still upset Sam-I am not a politician-but I do know about politics-and I do know what goes on at the OPC-I have even used facilities at the OPC-arranged for meals for some neighbors, got another neighbors mom signed into the day care....and lots of other things-so you are corrected-I do know about the OPC. The questions seniors have asked me is when is the Director going to leave and to say they are glad that as a senior I am not intimidated by the "OPC", others are talking about the "problems" with entrenchment, the control issues, the unwillingness to listen (by the OPC) and some are bringing up what they perceive to be problems within the OPC itself. Other seniors are appalled that certain other seniors did not get all the face from the OPC and they did not really have their own opinion, but were rather "influenced" to an opinion. Most seniors have said they would like the compromise offered by Rochester and then let everyone start to "take the books apart" in a transparent manner and do it professionally and appropriate with transparency so things work for everyone. So, any one that has talked to me, I have responded to. So, you are corrected again. I think in reading all the posts here, I sound pretty reasonable and willing to compromise-and I never said anything about candidates (?), sorry, but I don't think I sound ridiculous at all..have you re-read your posts?Also, I would encourage anyone, not just seniors to ask questions.

Pat, ignore the troll. The troll exists only to cause controversy. The more play you give the troll, the more ignorance the troll spews only to agitate you. The troll serves no purpose. To quote the troll, he (she) is a "loser" and a "nerd". Go away troll.

Ben, too bad you think everyone needs to agree with you and get upset when you hear critism and disagreement, but that's the difference between us. I'm mature and you're not.

Patircia, what rochester is doing is hurting OPC, and its easy for people to critisize the Executive Director, but where were they for the last thirty something years when Marye Miller dedicated her life to this cause. Now everybody wants something to do with OPC (and change it) so that they can have a claim to this jewel. Sorry, no one else but Marye Miller deserve credit and most of us are behind her all the way.

"Where were they for the last 30 years" Paying for the OPC as a taxpayer,getting the bond on the building, passing mileage increases, volunteering, supporting with donation, thats where we were the last 30 years--I have a very frank idea-it appears there may not be any compromise & this will not go away-it's being shoved down Rochester's throat anyway with a weighted Board & a Director who is inflaming rather than facilitating, if I had to end this today, pass it, give the increases, trade...OPC gets a new Director immediate-reason being for 90K, I want someone with a college education, someone who is objective, can see the big picture, is in tune with economics, is fair, a visionary, someone who is collaborative, a facilitator and understands "partnerships" and compromise. I want a Director who is a leader and does not influence for personal benefit. A Director that knows how to conduct themselves in public in a professional manner. And, in the queries I have made, we could get that for about 64K a year and put more money into services which is what the OPC is about. We don't need a Director turned "tour guide" and someone running around at the OPC rounding up support- The Director's job is administrative and supportive, not what we have seen and are aware of. I do believe there is already a building or room named after her-I think the communities have already said "thank you". She did not build the OPC by herself-3 communities did.

"Mature" Sam's greatest hits (in this thread alone nonetheless!):

Sam 5:58 pm on Saturday, February 18, 2012
Ben, too bad you think everyone needs to agree with you and get upset when you hear critism and disagreement, but that's the difference between us. I'm mature and you're not.

Sam 8:51 pm on Friday, February 10, 2012:
Ben..."On the other hand, however, if you feel threatened because others don't agree with you and tell you so, it must be because of your past as a nerd and a loser and you should see a psychologist about that."

Sam
5:46 pm on Thursday, February 9, 2012: "Since you never made it up the education ladder, I did the math for you.. 
and Rochester wants bigger representation in OPC's board!!! 
They are the biggest joke in the community."

Sam 7:57 pm on Friday, February 17, 2012: "Patricia you have no idea about politics, nor do you have any idea about what OPC does and what they provide for the seniors in the three communities."

And here we have Sam's retort on why he/she doesn't want to reveal her true identity: Sam 9:35 pm on Tuesday, February 14, 2012: "First of all, the system let me sign up for patch with just my first name. Again you are asking for things you have no business asking for. I gave my first name only and that's enough for the system and doesn't matter what you think."

Sam the troll needs to put up or shut up. Reveal your true identity and be part of the solution instead of the problem.

Ben,

I see you are having fun with your troll Sam. If the Patch does not address these trolls they will lose the rest of us who would like to have an intelligent conversation about real issues and be part of the solution.

These trolls think they are above the rules because they are clever, when in fact they are just scared cowards who add nothing to the conversation, they are meaningless noise. In the Patch rules it clearly states "You may not use any aliases or other means to mask your true identity."

Obviously they are on some hidden agenda and cannot win on the real debate so they take cheap shots and think people buy their opinion. I feel sorry for them because they are afraid.

It is what it is Daryl. My employees refer to people like this as I D 10 T's. This person we know well and is just further proves the case that the only way they can win is to be bullies. Donald Trump had it wrong when he said "it isn't personal, it's business." This for the townie trolls is personal. They've been on the gravy train for decades because no one dared question them. Now someone has and they do not have a good answer for their actions. What Lord Acton said certainly applies to Marye Miller and her minions..."I cannot accept your canon that we are to judge Pope and King unlike other men, with a favorable presumption that they did not wrong. If there is any presumption it is the other way against holders of power, increasing as the power increases. Historic responsibility has to make up for the want of legal responsibility. Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men, even when they exercise influence and not authority: still more when you superadd the tendency or the certainty of corruption by authority. There is no worse heresy than that the office sanctifies the holder of it."

Patricia, you have no clue how government and politics work and the more you try to convince people, the worse you sound. Also, thethings you mentioned are not things you have participated at OPC, but services you have advocated for others to use. Twisting the truth as usual, I see.

Ben, about time you figured out what "copy and paste means". Too bad you didn't mention all the things I said were replies to you sarcastic remarks.
By the way, you are not objecting to Mike (who commented on Feb 2nd on this topic) and Terry (who commented on Feb 3rd on this topic) about just using their first name only. Oh yeah, I know, they didn't disagree with you...that's why. Now we aee what a sore loser you are and the fact that you and the rochester council are the bullies, and not us.

I see Sam is still angry. Sam you to say that I am an advocate for others for the OPC-so if I am, that certainly says I know about the OPC and services and obviously support and care about the OPC. I find it creepy that you say I don't use the services..what do you do in your spare time, follow people? As a matter of fact, I have used some "amenities" at the OPC, and paid for the use. No lies there. Now this sounds like something the Director would say, you called me a liar-must be scraping the barrel for disparaging comments, uh Sam? You owe me an apology. I have not lied nor twisted the truth, If I sound stupid, I am sure it is to people like yourself, a minority that has not contributed one meaningful sentence to this dialogue yet- People that just stir the pot don't contribute to solutions and Sam, you have not ONCE, not ONE time said we need to compromise and come to a resolution. So, as far as politics go, I know something, you sir, know nothing and that is evident in all your posts. The contribution from you ....big fat zero. And that sir is the truth.

Pat, you sniffed it out also. Sam is Marye Miller. Had a suspicion but it is now validated. We just need to ignore her and do what's right for everyone, not just one person who feels entitled. We had the same problem with our former city manager. Someone who came in and did great things but along the way became intoxicated with power, anyone who questioned them was crushed. The streets of Rochester are littered with those victims as we both know. Me, it's not about the money anymore. It's about ensuring there are sufficient checks and balances in the system where one person can never again wield so much sway, control and authority over taxpayers and other stakeholders. Just another thing to clean up. We'll get there.

Pat & Ben, Very Funny.....You two make a great comedy team.....This all started with bikson and strand categorically voting no to everything OPC board brought to vote. It was obvious that rochester had a hidden agenda. The name calling, finger pointing and disrespting started with rochester council, thats were the problem is and that's were the bullying started. By the way, I found out that OPC board did propose two compromises and bikson rejected both of them without even bringing them to the rochester council. Transparency, huh. Who does rochester council think they are fooling?

Sorry Sam, since you can't get your facts straight, did to apologize to me for your "lies" and continue to contribute nothing other than name calling and sarcasm, I have nothing to say to you. You are still turning information in the wind, twisting it around to garner support for the "same old, same old" and discredit a City that has higher and standards and is more fiscally responsible to the taxpayers than Oakland Township or Rochester Hills. Rochester recognizes us, -you know the people that work in the private sector and our government offices that did not get raises or get double the cash of what it costs to provide for a health care premium. No sir, no free ride for the private sector. Really Sam, you don't even own your remarks-you're afraid of what people will think or say---and your remarks are nothing more than tantrums and bullying. When a "man can't step to the plate and own his words, his actions, he is nothing. " And of course, let's to forget those "Ghost Writers" at the OPC............

Hmmmm..."Sam" didn't deny the ID, Pat. Good call. "Sam" is living in some delusional place where the world revolves around her and we are here merely as useful idiots, to say yes to everything they want and do so with a noble kowtow. Silly, really. This is why there is no compromise. This other horse crap is smoke. They have offered nothing but the middle finger this entire process. Delusional. Like I said earlier, this ain't about the money anymore. This is something much more egregious.

Ben & Pat, since you didn't understand (or didn't want to), I said "Very Funny", you two make a great comedy team.....that would be saying that you are wrong as usual since you two are a little too slow.

Anyway, myself and the other seniors users and supporters at OPC will make sure rochester council doesn't turn OPC into a community center. There's RARA for that and I've seen how well you support it, for example by giving an 11% raise to the director. Your lack of support for seniors and our activity center is not appreciated.by myself or other OPC users.

Where was your vocal objection while they were all being underpaid?

They were too busy spending money ona stupid bridge.........That's what they call fiscal responsibility.

Ben,

I have been watching this OPC issue very closely and I now understand your hesitation about communities working on projects together. I totally agree with the stand Rochester is taking on this issue and feel Rochester Hills and Oakland Twp are way out of line in just passing an increase that is so out of line with industry, current economic conditions and will become unsustainable.

I am changing my opinion on communities working together to find synergies, the OPC is a perfect example of how it does not work. I will continue on my committee work, but keep a close eye on how they are supposed to work together. I now agree with you, this does not work when politics are involved. I am still hopeful, but very disappointed in watching this OPC issue.

Yeah, it's a bummer Daryl. No matter how hard anyone tries, humans will always be humans. This is why I subscribe to Rand, Bastiat and Friedman trains of thought. Why fight the system? Angry insiders like our friend Sam here exist solely to make sure they get theirs, everyone else be damned. Bullies will always get their way. Be it by force, intimidation or simply by stacking the board. Red herrings abound and the truth, well she's at best elusive. This is why the progressive utopia is unachievable. The only time anyone wants to cooperate with you is when it benefits them. So, that's why it's best to stay small and nimble and let God sort the rest out. Cheers for getting involved. Sorry to let this exercise be the canary for you but in my short life in politics, this sadly is the norm. Hate it. For every Sam, there's 25 normal people who are generally fair minded but are jaded and refuse to get involved. Precisely because people like Sam bully them and the conclusion is, my life is complicated enough...why bother. And people like Sam build their organizations counting on that apathy and fear of sticking their neck out. It's an endless cycle. No doubt Sam here shook down kids for their lunch money back in the day and this is simply a continuation. It is what it is. This isn't about the money at all anymore.

Does the phrase "You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" apply here?
Sure looks that way-

You have two representatives on the board. That is your say so. If you are not in the majority, you get out voted. You should take a class in Politiocal science. That is called democracy.

Well Sam, I don't have a Political Science degree, but I know one thing, collaboration, compromise, partnerships, resolutions, team work, communication, transparency, etc.
are part of a Democracy.
So, where's the Democracy at the OPC? or, the OPC Board?

Sam wrote "So if you are not in the majority, you get voted out"
See Sam, by your own words, Rochester has no voice, no say--it is either OPC and present company's way or nothing.... you can not have a Board that is weighted. It has to be different. Rochester will never have a say or a voice. Rochester will never count. It is designed to be the OPC way or the highway.

Laurie,

You are right on mark with your comments, we have to all step up and take a stand. The path we are on is one of bankruptcy, the numbers do not lie. The waters are full with hidden agendas, bullying, attacks and people hiding behind fake names. These folks are trying to gain something by destroying others and not seeking an open and honest dialog.

If we do not stop the deficit spending at all levels we will fail, as you noted in your post about other cities that have run out of runway and are now going down hard. This is our future, we need to prioritize our spending and not take on things we cannot afford. Sounds like a great way to run our personal lives, oh we do, why should we not expect government to do the same?

Ah, the proverbial $64,000 question Kristin. For the first 43 years of my life, I was one of those 25. Then I got pissed off because I was being lied to by people who I trusted to do the right thing. Now here I am...longing for the days when I was not involved (as I'm sure those who's party I've spoiled wish as well). The entire strategy I've learned is one of persistence. Keep battling those who see fit to take away what you want until they give in and you win. You'd think that as a human race we'd evolve past this and be able to sit and have respectful discourse, compromise and come to some position that everyone can live with. Instead, it's GTFO. Until people can get over themselves, we're stuck. And that's too bad.

Kristen: I have been asking myself the same question for a week now. I was actually considering doing a campaign to get people involved. I honestly believe that once people find out what is going on they get involved and speak out. I am with Ben on this one, people have to get past themselves in order to get anything good done. I hate to say this but this is only going to get worse before it gets better.

I know they're out there because they call, send emails, stop me at Caribou, etc. And that is all appreciated, believe me. However I always say "you need to come to the meetings and make your feelings known". Unfortunately that one doesn't get too far. Most people simply don't want to stick their neck out. I mean, who can blame them? The first thing that happens is when you dare question something, "Sam" comes along, calls you a liar and threatens to organize a recall effort in a city not his own because you happen to disagree with him (her, whatever). Luckily it hasn't gotten to physical threats (yet) but I can tell you there have been times that I have been fearful for my wife and small children. Some of these Sams are not dealing with full decks. Who wants to take that kind of abuse? And Sam counts on your feeling that way. Shut your mouth and do as your told or I'll make life miserable for you. Nice.

My time is finite. Wasting it on this BS is not at the top of my to-do list. I choose to surround myself with like-minded people who are not in it for themselves but genuinely want to work together to accomplish great things. But unlike the 25, I'm not afraid of Sam. This needs to get fixed and if it takes the loss of a few battles to win the war, I'm ready and in it for the long haul. Bring it "Sam". In case you hadn't noticed, I'm not afraid of you.

Ben, I'm not trying to scare anyone. I just don't like and will not putup with a city council that wants to take control of OPC and turn it into a community center (and pretend they are being fiscally responsible, yeah we know better). Stop trying to take away from what seniors support adn fight for. On the other hand, however, if you feel threatened because others don't agree with you and tell you so, it must be because of your past as a nerd and a loser and you should see a psychologist about that.

Nice, troll. Go back under your bridge. Oh, that's right, they're tearing it down. No wonder you're upset.

http://www.flayme.com/troll/

I see Sam is still angry and now its 8:51 pm. Friday night-- in all the posts from "Sam" never anything concrete-no mention of solutions, transparency, compromise, civil discussions--just angry little tirades. He just keeps repeating Rochester doesn't matter and Rochester should leave... and when that doesn't work in 24 hours and he doesn't get his way, he starts name calling....but at least the people he calls names aren't afraid to use their full names......unlike "Sam".
Here's a piece of your own advice Sam, put up or shut up--got some ideas for a solution, submit them..this is not a two way street, it's three ways, got that? Three-
not just Rochester Hills and Oakland and we count---and you can count on that.
The truth always comes out, and common sense always prevails and so does compromise-- but you have to be willing. You have been angry now for days, it can't be good for your health...
By the way it's snowing and the plows just came--this way if there is a need or an emergency, we can get out safely and it's part of our quality of life here. Are they going to be able to salt and plow your roads tonight?......maybe tomorrow? Well, it's suppose to melt in a day or so......I am glad we live in a fiscally responsible city-
We may not always get along, but together this community gets things right---and in the end, thats what counts.

Trolls. Gotta love the spineless ones that hide behind fake names and chuck grenades. I remember when we went thru this exorcism, er um I mean exercise, back in 2008 with our DDA, when I had the audacity to question how much taxpayers spent a year to subsidize the marketing of Downtown Rochester, a Downtown merchant back then accused me at a City Council meeting of being like a little boy who starts fires then hides and watches the building burn. Loved that. Truly a class act. I guess I'm getting battle hardened.

Scot, here is some humor--what could be the cost to a taxpayer? The equivalent of a couple of tickets for the Feb. 23, 2012 trip to Africa through the OPC
currently posted as $6,100.00+ for a single and that does not include all the side trips, meals or other amenities..

Scot: I have shared my thought here and am done. I have been honest and open in both here and in City Council chambers. Plan B I have no idea what is next, to be perfectly honest. As Ben mentioned we are trying to form sub committee to work on a solution. I never asked the director for an apology. Her actions and words speak for themselves. As the City Council member from Rochester Hills stated, she was out of order. And as far as "one of those bosses" she has the most to gain so of course she is going to fight. In turn we are fighting for our residents. Thank you for your input but I respectfully disagree. Have a nice weekend. Cathy

Ben,

Have a great weekend too. Just looked at your agenda online no OPC listed for discussion is it going to come up for discussion monday night? If it does I would suggest the city clerk should put it on the agenda so it does not come off looking like you were going to have an OPC descussion with out letting the citizens know first...just a thought. Ben thanks for your response.

Thanks for the tip on the rep/dem banter, Scot. With all due respect, I'll pass. Get enough of that venom on a daily basis and both parties are delusional. Sadly, what I believe in is no longer in vogue. My modern-day heroes are Andrew Napolitano, Rand Paul (and his dad post 1990), and one guy I really admire is Justin Amash. Aside from that, it's just what we've been talking about in this thread. On steroids. The sheeple have been dumbed down sufficiently and as long as American Idol is on the 65" flat screen and they can get that Paxil prescription refilled, they're good to go. Hate to be a pessimist, but the best days of this country are behind us.

Ben, I will sometimes ask similar type questions knowing that for some people, municipal boards are just a stepping stone to higher office. Other candidates will use their new name recognition to support people being elected to governing bodies that do influence the topic of question. For example, a question about teachers unions may help determine whether you will back a particular school board candidate.

Just The Facts:

The mission of the Older Person's Commission (OPC) is to address the needs of older persons, 60-years and older, regardless of, sexual preference, income, race, religion, nationality, physical, or mental ability that live in Rochester Hills, Rochester, and Oakland Twp. The OPC’s goal is to provide nutritional meals, services, health and wellness, social and educational activities, transportation, adult day services, and community outreach opportunities.

How much does the (OPC) cost "the taxpayer" per year? In Rochester Hills:
per $100.000 taxable value x .0002403 = $24.03 per year; (OPC) Operating Millage in RH
per $100.000 taxable value x .0000891 = $08.91 per year; (OPC) Transportation Millage in RH
If you own a $200.000 house in RH (OPC) would cost you $32.94 dollars per year in taxes, not a bad deal for one of the most highly recognized institutions for senior services nationally, and rated the best in MI.

An Opinion: 

Daryl Patrishkoff... I would assume would rather spend his $32.94 on something else; and swim in a pool full of screaming kids who probably pee in it.* LOL I personally am honored to contribute my $32.94 every year to the 'Greatest Generation' my parents. Also Daryl uses fuzzy math to make points... (OPC) uses a menu of options so our seniors don't have to pay for facilities they would never use... which makes this option less cost for them than Lifetime.

*a little sarcasm there please forgive me Lifetime Fitness Center

"Always listen to the customer." - Sam Walton

Daryl, you're fighting a losing battle so best to just move on. It is impossible to talk honestly about this issue and have dialog with respect and understanding. People are just too stubborn to listen and consider that others may actually have a good point, and work to find common ground. Your point is spot on and one that needs to be vetted. Sadly the old saying seems apropos here: "denial is not just a river in Egypt."

Terry,

Never once did I imply that the OPC is not a great institution and something we should be proud of. What I am saying is they are not competitive, asking for huge raises, pensions, health care and building an unsustainable monster we will not be able to afford which only increases their cost. They are charging over market pricing for similar service. Where is the outrage that they are overcharging our seniors?

They are offering a health club membership service and the comparison to Lifetime is fair. Why do they get to overcharge for this service with less hours being open? Just because they do other services does not give them the right to overcharge our seniors for the health club service.

The OPC needs to be competitive and self sustaining for the services they provide, if people want to take their personal money they can make a donation. Since Scot seems to be proud to spend his money for the OPC he should open up his personal checkbook and write them a check, not mine. Having the taxpayers continue to increase their portion of funding and with the budget increases to pay employees uncompetitive wages and benefits should not be accepted.

The Rochester City Council is the only one taking a stand and being attacked for doing so. I believe Rochester Hills and Oakland Twp should be ashamed of themselves; they are not being good stewards of our money.

Ben had the greatest quote, "Denial is not just a river in Egypt".

Daryl,

'Scot, You have not answered the question, Where is the outrage that the OPC
is overcharging our seniors for this service?' your quote... Daryl, not feeling the outrage form our seniors in the community, prove your comments, and at least read the first page of their budget.

'the LFC CEO's salary comparison to the OPC Directors' your quote... put that one in for fun...Terry saw through it. LOL

"However, every time you know you cannot win the argument you change the
subject" your quote... Daryl the subject is OPC, also I win all arguments with you, you make it to easy. Remember the 'Patch' is not all about you it's all about the residents who read it.

Daryl, find the funding... a political science class at Oakland University is a good suggestion, that is who Rochester Hills uses, and do a customer satisfaction survey; of seniors in the area and seniors that use OPC when your done you'll find out your comments as usual are off base.

Terry,

'Your argument comparing OPC and Lifetime salaries is ridiculous.' your quote... Daryl brought this up not me, I just felt fun to jump into his ridiculous argument.  We do need to agree we get our selves into a catch 22 when we don't like the answer then we can't compare... when we do we compare; private and public sector.

'Your comment on the budget sounds like the OPC Directors daughters
(Rochester City Councilwoman).' your quote... She and I have read the OPC budget... those are just the facts... to fault an organization with that kind of fund balance to me does not make sense. If there are line items in the budget that you have concern with bring them up to the governing board.

'you are very inconsistent on your OPC comments compared to those on the City of Rochester Hills and their City Council.' your quote... yes and no Terry, OPC and City of Rochester need to solve this an move on. OPC timing was all wrong... were just now coming out of the great recession, and I would agree with Ben this was to much to ask for in one year.

Patricia,

'No worries, taxpayers never go away, they just pay more.' your quote... Patricia taxpayers do go away, my point this only cost me personally $32.94 every year to help out the 'Greatest Generation' my parents...and I'm happy to pay. OPC is not raising your taxes, and the millage has never been raised. Speaking of exclusive clubs...DDA's. Can't get more exclusive than that... they get to siphon off tax dollars and spend the money on them selves.

Daryl,
You are correct on the cost. And on the survey(s) --29% of the seniors use only some of the services- and not consistently. It's is a low percentage considering the budget-many have told me it is too expensive or "too fancy" -and not what they want-It is their opinion. Then less than 29% respond or comment. The surveys are pretty general & positive comments are greatly encouraged by a few staff members and the Director--lobbying efforts of a different kind. Valentines Day was just one example of how all the great comments and surveys come about, the OPC had "ghost writers" to put your thoughts in their words.....
The hours are not good for us seniors that work full time--I use to like to use the track and equipment, but I was rushing from work-the hours are really geared for those that are retired full time--not us full time working seniors.

Daryl and Pat, I know you ego would like to think your tax money supports OPC, but sorry. OPC is completely user funded for thei services. The tax money only pays t\for transportation, meals on wheels and some of the building up keep.
Daryl, If you and your wife compared Lifetime and OPC, and you thought Lifetime was a better deal, all you have to do is join Lifetime and be happy, that's your choice and no one would question that. We choose OPC because we are happy with what OPC offer us, and how dare you telling us what to chose or to imply OPC is mis-managed.

The change was mandated by a new state law. They only did it because they had to do it in order to be in compliance with the law. It was not in response to any request by the RCC. Thanks so much for updating this thread.